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Back again - need to update our LiveOS


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#1 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 03:52 PM

This is not my hobby nor do I want it to be.

 

I have experience with WinBuilder and I have been here before under a slightly different name (Mr.Adam); I have gotten projects operational in the past and we have been using our current LiveOS for about 6 years. I am not fully in-tuned with the lingo, I do have a operational understanding of the "Projects" and I understand the fundamentals of how a project is assembled and built.

 

This is a tool for us, we use it everyday to support our functions as a OEM; this tool is valuable, and it needs updated.

 

We are finally making the move from Windows 7 to Windows 10, something I have been hammering on for 3 years now!  I need to be able to support it and while our current process will work with slight modifications I would rather update the tool to match our deployment; I also need to continue support for older systems in a backup & recovery function.

 

I have no desire to get into the inner workings of WinBuilder and the projects, I am comfortable Modifying a project as needed once I know that project works but I don't have weeks to devote to this; infact with the current state of the world I have 1 day a week where I work from home and thus have time for this.  Nothing will be committed to long term memory though I am going to attempt to document the processes for our internal use; that document can probably be shared if there is interest but i make no promises on when i will complete it (Sooner the faster this comes together and works)

 

I need help picking a starting point, seems like there are a few primary options: Gandalf's and Misty being the top?

 

This tool is used by people who have no understanding or even know such a project exist, it's magic to them and as such needs to be easy to use.  So all tools with-in the bootable are front and center on the desktop, the OS boots with little to no interaction, I have made the instructions for PEnetwork, Capture, and apply of XP and Win7 part of the desktop background, things are spelled out so that anyone I work with can pick this up and use it.

 

It needs to support XP, Win7, and Win10; currently I use BootIce to prep XP and I have a batch file that works for Win7 and Win10.  Win10 can be captured and applied with ImageX but you have to disable Defender and then re-enable after apply.  The current process also creates a redundant BCD entry which is more difficult to remove in Windows 10; so i am looking to streamline this as much as possible.

 

Most of the Hardware is very similar, we get it all from a single vendor and it is all industrialized computers and as such retain a very strict build spec. With that said the XP and Win7 hardware differs quite a bit and the Win10 hardware looks similar to Win7 but I am fairly certain the base chipset has changed.  I also want to be able to support other systems, right now there are my none standard systems that will not boot due to drivers;  the more general I can keep my drivers or the more driver support I can include the better. 

 

and OMG it would be great if touch worked on anything we plug into; tired of the complaining...lol

 

We currently use ImageX and the GimageX GUI to capture and apply .wim format files.  I like .wim as it is versatile and since we have been using it to this point we need to continue using it going forward.  DISM now supports .wim (Has for a while) and I now have a GUI (DISM_Tool) that supports DISM and has the functions I need front and center.

 

Is there a project that has DISM and possibly even a GUI with capture apply functions?  of course .wim support is a must. I can inject what I need but a good starting point is ideal.

 

I would like to have VNC included this time around, happy to add it to any project but a project that already has it would be great.

 

Source files: I am still trying to understand how the changes that came with Windows 10 effect WinBuilder and it seems like in the past that is something this community has fought to keep up with too.  Has that gotten better?  The last few times I have attempted this with Win10 it seems like my source files were problematic; I have access to VLK media, I can do the media creation tool, and I even have a clean copy of the LTSC ISO now.  

 

This turned into damn long post, part of that is because of my past experiences on here;  this community is unique and tight knit; I respect that, I am an outsider seeking insight. If you have stuck with me to this point then you have a desire to understand and help, that is greatly appreciated. Stress levels are high, employee's question work at home productivity, help me show that productivity can be high; help me produce a quality solution. 

 

TL;DNR

 

Need a Win10 bootable project with DISM, .wim support, VNC, robust driver support for diverse hardware support, touch support on anything with a touchscreen.  If you are serious about helping then please read the post. 



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 05:13 PM

if what you want is really a Win10PE (built with Winbuilder or  Pebakery) there is the Win10PE/Win10XPE project.

 

Or the MistyPE one:

http://mistyprojects...ocs/readme.html

 

MistyPE is (intentionally) minimal/niche.

 

But maybe you would be better served (assuming that machines have enough RAM) by a "core" Windows 10 in a vhd/wim loaded in RAM *like*:

http://reboot.pro/to...-for-os-in-vhd/

 

:duff:

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#3 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 06:36 PM

 

 

But maybe you would be better served (assuming that machines have enough RAM) by a "core" Windows 10 in a vhd/wim loaded in RAM *like*:

http://reboot.pro/to...-for-os-in-vhd/

 

 

Now that sounds interesting.....I will check it out. 



#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 07:58 AM

As a side note and JFYI - besides and beyond DISM - most people now uses Wimlib, which is an open source program/library:

https://wimlib.net/

 

That has - among other things - an imagex implementation (thus you should be able to re-use "as is" your current workflow:

http://reboot.pro/to...implementation/

 

And a GUI for it:

http://reboot.pro/fi...588-wimlib-clc/

 

:duff:

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#5 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 12:32 PM

As a side note and JFYI - besides and beyond DISM - most people now uses Wimlib, which is an open source program/library:

https://wimlib.net/

 

That has - among other things - an imagex implementation (thus you should be able to re-use "as is" your current workflow:

http://reboot.pro/to...implementation/

 

And a GUI for it:

http://reboot.pro/fi...588-wimlib-clc/

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

 

That GUI is very elegant, I am curious if you have any experience with Wimlib in direct relation to Win10 imaging (if not I will go hit the forum).

 

The issue I am running into with Win10 and ImageX is that I can capture fine and even my apply goes well but I have to disable to Windows Defender, specifically the malware, in the registry or the image will fail to boot after apply.  Once I disable defender , capture, and apply it boots but throws a fit about defender being off.  I haven't gone much further than that yet, I am sure I could probably develop a startup script that re-enables the product on first boot, but I had always been told that DISM was a better tool for Win10 capture and apply; now that I am digging back into this it seems like ImageX popularity has come back around with some fantastic development on the product.  But I don't really see any guides for capture and apply of 10 and how to optimize the process.

 

This is probably a separate topic that I need to address but it also effects what I do for the LiveOS a little bit.

 

I got Misty to build in Winbuilder, but it BSOD in my VMware workstation.  Going to play a little more but I may also start looking at PEbakery, I have never tried that one. Does seem like Misty is pretty popular right now though and I do appreciate the minimal layout, previous projects can be rather daunting for a novice. 

 

I also need to dig into the RAM load you suggested though we are only dealing with 4GBs on the primary systems so I will need to check requirements before I go too far. 

 

I really do appreciate your time and input. 



#6 wimb

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 01:02 PM

After booting with Win10XPE from RAMDISK then WinNTSetup can be used for Apply of WIM files

Capture of WIM file is possible with WinNTSetup even in booted Windows, but Windows Defender should be switched off for fast Capture.

After Next Install of Win10x64 with Captured WIM file then often first booting via F8 in Safe Mode is required and then Reboot normal 

 

Booting with full Win10x64 in 50 GB VHD as FILEDISK is also quite an interesting topic.

It allows to have several Windows 10 VHD's next to each other, so that you can Inject quickly a new operating system without disturbing the existing configuration.

 

How to make Win10XPE WIM file for booting from RAMDISK

 

Read more about it in and in the topoc here and at at MSFN about USB FORMAT Tool and UEFI MULTI

 

VHD_WIMBOOT is not so advisable since Microsoft does not fully support WIMBOOT anymore ....

 

For Restore of a Registry Backup in case of trouble you need full admin rights as available in Win10XPE and not in Win10x64 VHD

The small VHD booting from RAMDISK is only useful when Internet is switched off, since otherwise Windows Update will fill all the free space ....



#7 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 01:10 PM

 

Capture of WIM file is possible with WinNTSetup even in booted Windows, but Windows Defender should be switched off for fast Capture.

 

 

out of all of that this caught my eye.......I can run WinNTSetup in side a running OS and capture a .wim???????

 

Where have you been all my life!?!?!?



#8 wimb

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 01:15 PM

out of all of that this caught my eye.......I can run WinNTSetup in side a running OS and capture a .wim???????

 

Where have you been all my life!?!?!?

 

Last year there has been a lot of development here and at MSFN that makes computer management a lot better and easier, such as fast Capture Win10x64 in only 1.2 min

 

Capture-2020-01-12_152454.png


#9 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 01:39 PM

Last year there has been a lot of development here and at MSFN that makes computer management a lot better and easier, such as fast Capture Win10x64 in only 1.2 min

 

:D



#10 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 07:40 PM

I am getting a BSOD when booting in either a VM or on a Physical box, happens during the splash and then I get an error code 0xC000021A which appears to be Winlogon.exe or Csrss.exe failing.   This happens in Winbuilder, MistyPE and ChrisPE so I don't think its builder related; and since it happens in all three and I am not changing any settings right off it makes me think it's my source files.

 

now there is a chance I have screwed up because I can only select 64 bit and I am wondering if that is connected. I am going to step back my ADK version as Wonko suggested but what else should I be looking at?  



#11 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 08:13 PM

not sure what i am doing wrong.

 

I am building inside a Win7 64 bit VM because my host does not have the rights I need; my VM is not a domain OS. From what i can tell the build completes sucessfully, I do not get any erros during the build.  I have 9 warning on the log, apparently i do not need syswow:

 

<Warnings>
- [5] Warnings in script [Tweaks] (ChrisPE\Core\D_Tweaks.script)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 1 files (WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%ProjectTemp%\File.and.Dependencies.txt,%TargetDir%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 22)
  |-> Referenced script [Browse for Folder] (ChrisPE\Core\Browse.For.Folder.script)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 1 files (WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%ProjectTemp%\File.and.Dependencies.txt,%TargetDir%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 117)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 1 files (WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%ProjectTemp%\File.and.Dependencies.txt,%TargetDir%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 124)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 1 files (WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%ProjectTemp%\File.and.Dependencies.txt,%TargetDir%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 131)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 6 files (WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%Tools%\wimlib.file.lists\DragDrop.Dependencies.txt,%TargetDir%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 151)
 
- [4] Warnings in script [WoW64] (ChrisPE\Core\G_WoW64.script)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] No matches for path pattern "\Windows\SysWOW64\DXCore.dll" (If,%CodeBase2%,Equal,10.0,WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%Tools%\wimlib.file.lists\syswow.files.10.txt,%SysWow64_Files%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 48)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] No matches for path pattern "\Windows\SysWOW64\shellstyle.dll" (If,%CodeBase2%,Equal,10.0,WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%Tools%\wimlib.file.lists\syswow.files.10.txt,%SysWow64_Files%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 48)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] No matches for path pattern "\Windows\SysWOW64\umpdc.dll" (If,%CodeBase2%,Equal,10.0,WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%Tools%\wimlib.file.lists\syswow.files.10.txt,%SysWow64_Files%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 48)
[Warning] WimExtractBulk - [WARNING] Ignoring extended attributes of 335 files (If,%CodeBase2%,Equal,10.0,WimExtractBulk,%Install.wim%,%Install.wim.Image.number%,%Tools%\wimlib.file.lists\syswow.files.10.txt,%SysWow64_Files%,NOACL,NOERR) (Line 48)


#12 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 08:17 PM

lol.............

 

 

Built..........so it was stepping back the ADK version to 15063 and turning syswow back off.....which i forgot I turned on to test with...



#13 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 09:20 PM

Thanks for the input everyone! looks like Misty or Chris will facilitate my needs.  I got my build to run on the physical machine (which took no extra work) so now Wednesday when I am working from home i can start modifying. 

 

Still need to do more comparison of imagex and DISM, if you have any input of suggested resources I am open ears. 



#14 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 04:18 PM

Last year there has been a lot of development here and at MSFN that makes computer management a lot better and easier, such as fast Capture Win10x64 in only 1.2 min

 

Do you have more information on the in OS capture?  I don't see the options and I am probably missing something obvious. I have WinNTSetup4.1 64bit running inside a Win7 OS. 



#15 wimb

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 07:17 PM

 Swith off Defender - In WinNTSetup use Menu - Local Windows Installations and Capture Wim to make Backup WIM file

 

Hidden Option in WinNTSetup Menu Upper Left - Or use Ctrl + Shift + O

 

Attached File  WinNTSetup-2020-04-09_211258.jpg   98KB   1 downloads == Attached File  Win7_Capture-2020-04-09_222949.jpg   81.62KB   0 downloads

 

Volume Shadow Service is needed for Capture present in Win10 x64 OS that I am using, also working for Win7x64 OS

 

Use WinNTSetup_x64 in x64 environment and WinNTSetup_x86 in x86 OS


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#16 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 08:09 PM

 Swith off Defender - In WinNTSetup use Menu - Local Windows Installations and Capture Wim to make Backup WIM file

 

Hidden Option in WinNTSetup Menu Upper Left - Or use Ctrl + Shift + O

 

attachicon.gifWinNTSetup-2020-04-09_211258.jpg == attachicon.gifWin7_Capture-2020-04-09_222949.jpg

 

Volume Shadow Service is needed for Capture present in Win10 x64 OS that I am using, also working for Win7x64 OS

 

Use WinNTSetup_x64 in x64 environment and WinNTSetup_x86 in x86 OS

 

 

ooohhhhhh cool. thank you



#17 Mr.Adam1983

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 09:00 PM

 Swith off Defender - In WinNTSetup use Menu - Local Windows Installations and Capture Wim to make Backup WIM file

 

Hidden Option in WinNTSetup Menu Upper Left - Or use Ctrl + Shift + O

 

attachicon.gifWinNTSetup-2020-04-09_211258.jpg == attachicon.gifWin7_Capture-2020-04-09_222949.jpg

 

Volume Shadow Service is needed for Capture present in Win10 x64 OS that I am using, also working for Win7x64 OS

 

Use WinNTSetup_x64 in x64 environment and WinNTSetup_x86 in x86 OS

 

 

This tool is brilliant!


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