19 replies to this topic

[misty]

Few notes about my system setup. I'm running an old Lenovo Thinkpad X200. 32-bit Windows 7 Ultimate was installed - this allowed me to upgrade to Windows 10 Professional.

The Windows 7 system was activated using SLP (OEM BIOS Activation).

First issue with taking advantage of the free upgrade to Windows 10 offer - Automatic Update was turned off on my PC and I didn't have the Get Windows 10 app installed. Nice to know that this isn't actually required - just download the MediaCreationTool instead.

Now after some reading it appears that in order to have an activated and licensed copy of Windows 10 an inplace upgrade must be completed first - using the MediaCreationTool and selecting the Upgrade this PC now option. I won't bore you with all the details - after running through a range of self explanatory steps I installed Windows 10 Professional (32-bit) without any issues and it activated as soon as I connected to the internet.

During the above process a hardware hash is generated - this is apparently stored on a Microsoft Server. This hash is unique to the machine the upgrade process was completed on.

I'm not a fan of installing Windows by upgrading in this way - so on to a clean install. I used the MediaCreationTool again and this time selected the Create installation media for another PC option > "ISO file" > and set "Architecture" as "Both".

I then rebooted my PC > formatted the system drive (diskpart) > ran setup.exe from the .iso file I'd created and completed a fresh install of Windows - on connecting to the internet Windows 10 automatically activated - thanks to the hardware hash stored on the server following my inplace upgrade.

Now here's the fun part - I upgraded from a Windows 7 32-bit system. Just for fun I though I'd try installing Windows 10 64-bit from the .iso file. I booted to WinPE and formatted the system drive (again!). Booted the .iso created earlier and choose the Windows 10 Setup (64-bit) option, then completed the Windows installation.

On completing the installation I connected to the internet - the 64-bit Windows 10 also activated from the hardware hash generated following the Windows 7 32-bit inplace upgrade!!!!!

This was a test. I now plan to revert back to Windows 7 or possible 32-bit Windows 10 as in my opinion running a 64-bit OS on my hardware is a pain in the arse and a waste of time.



The .iso created by the MediaCreationTool is interesting. It contains both 32-bit and 64-bit WinPE with menu options in the BCD store. Contents of the BCD store from my Windows 10 .iso -

Spoiler

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.10240]
© 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>bcdedit /store D:\boot\bcd /enum all

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {default}
displayorder {default}
{b0dc1eab-38d5-11e5-93cf-00262df3b126}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {default}
device ramdisk=[boot]\x64\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
description Windows 10 Setup (64-bit)
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\x64\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
systemroot \windows
bootmenupolicy Legacy
detecthal Yes
winpe Yes
ems No

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {b0dc1eab-38d5-11e5-93cf-00262df3b126}
device ramdisk=[boot]\x86\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
description Windows 10 Setup (32-bit)
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
osdevice ramdisk=[boot]\x86\sources\boot.wim,{7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
systemroot \windows
bootmenupolicy Legacy
detecthal Yes
winpe Yes
ems No

Windows Memory Tester
---------------------
identifier {memdiag}
device boot
path \boot\memtest.exe
description Windows Memory Diagnostic
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}

EMS Settings
------------
identifier {emssettings}
bootems No

Debugger Settings
-----------------
identifier {dbgsettings}
debugtype Serial
debugport 1
baudrate 115200

Global Settings
---------------
identifier {globalsettings}
inherit {dbgsettings}
{emssettings}

Boot Loader Settings
--------------------
identifier {bootloadersettings}
inherit {globalsettings}
{hypervisorsettings}

Hypervisor Settings
-------------------
identifier {hypervisorsettings}
description Hypervisor Settings
hypervisordebugtype Serial
hypervisordebugport 1
hypervisorbaudrate 115200

Device options
--------------
identifier {7619dcc8-fafe-11d9-b411-000476eba25f}
ramdisksdidevice boot
ramdisksdipath \boot\boot.sdi

The following site was very useful - http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/ (particularly http://winsupersite....ws-10-activated)

Regards,

Misty

[paraglider]

Looks like MS updated the media creation tool. original one from earlier this week did not work for me. Latest version 10.0.10240.16423 actually created the iso. Earlier version failed after downloading the files.

[paraglider]

For me 8.1 x64 pro to win 10 x64 pro original upgrade via windows update failed after it copied the downloaded files to the install folders. I created an iso from the downloaded install.esd, mounted that, and performed the upgrade manually.

[misty]

Just completed the upgrade process on another laptop - a Thinkpad T400.

This time instead of running the MediaCreationTool I copied the contents of the .iso I'd previously created when running this tool (the one I mentioned in post #1 containing x86 and x64 install options) to D:\Win10files.

Ran D:\Win10files\setup.exe (not D:\Win10files\x86\setup.exe - not D:\Win10files\x64\setup.exe)

The first upgrade attempt failed - can't remember the error. Retried - chose not to check for updates this time - the upgrade completed. It's a lengthy process - one of the reasons I prefer a clean install.

Windows 10 activated without any problems once I'd connected to the internet. Installation size was a hefty 15.2GB Used Space!
 

...it appears that in order to have an activated and licensed copy of Windows 10 an inplace upgrade must be completed first - using the MediaCreationTool and selecting the Upgrade this PC now option...

I should have read the article I linked to more clearly - as long as an inplace upgrade is completed the hardware hash is created on the microsoft server and the system will activate - and reactivate if a clean installation is completed. Running the Upgrade this PC now option in MediaCreationTool is not necessary - the inplace upgrade however is. Running the Upgrade this PC now option and creating an .iso is a waste of time and bandwidth - I'd recommend just creating the .iso (or bootable USB) option and running setup.exe from there.

Anyway, I wiped the system drive and completed a fresh installation of Windows 10 - this also activated once connected to the internet. Fresh install - 7.41GB used space (compared to 15.2 GB on the inplace upgraded system)!

I now have a valid licence for Windows 10 and can revert back to Windows 7 until it (Windows 10) is a bit more stable.

Regards,

Misty

[sixcentgeorge]

same as paraglider , i launched the download of iso...pc made an auto-poweroff...

then i was unable to open the tool again

 

beside that , the video drivers are not looking so cool with "old" cards...like hd5k or gtx5xx..

with them not being dx12 while they are dx11 like all others made after....

i mean that dx12 is mostly a rewrite for multithread cpu and gpu than a gpu evolution....

 

i think i ll will stay with 7 and wait its update to dx12 , of course may be i ll install win10 on licensed pc with win7 ...

[pscEx]

Let me add my two cents:

 

Startup System:

Host: Lenovo S540, delivered with 8.1. Pro German.

I made the system partition smaller,

created new partitions and added Win7 SP1 (valid activated) and Mint 17.

 

Now the host boots with the Linux boot menu giving the choice for Mint and Windows Boot Manager, which,when choosen, offeres Win 7 and Win 8.1

 

Test:

Tried successles, to use the Media Creator Tool created ISO to install over the 8.1 partition. The triels included booting from ISO, booting from 8.1 and using the ISO.

 

Success:

Go the "official" way, using the window icon in the running 8.1 icon tray.

• Reserve
• Download
• Upgrade

Now I have nearly the same like before, with the exception that there is Win 10 instead of 8.1. The Windows boot manager shows that accordingly without that I did anything.

BTW: The upgrade automagically installed German.

 

Maybe this is important:

Before upgrade, I installed the new S540 BIOS which, following description, has something for windows 10.

I switched my Avast completelly off during the upgrade task.

 

Peter

[alacran]

According to some info I read you should first uninstall AVAST, before upgrading the current OS. Latter you can install Avast in new OS.

 

EDIT: I found it Quote: we recommended uninstalling the existing security program before updating, and then installing the latest version of the program when the upgrade is complete.

 

Source: http://www.av-compar...urity-products/

Edited by alacran, 10 August 2015 - 12:31 AM.

[Wonko the Sane]

Just for the record succesles should be pscEx's version of unsuccessfully.

 

Wonko

[pscEx]

Now I have nearly the same like before, with the exception that there is Win 10 instead of 8.1. The Windows boot manager shows that accordingly without that I did anything.

 

I have to modify:

 

Boot:

• Ubuntu menu > choose "Windows Boot Manager"
• The Win10 icon appears, after some seconds the Win10 Menu comes up with the choice Win10 / Win7
  1. Choose Win10 > Win10 starts up directly
  2. Choose Win7: > Appearently a reboot, then Ubunto boot menu comes up again
     • choose "Windows Boot Manager" or wait for time out > Win7 starts up
        

Some Vodoo?

 

Peter

[sixcentgeorge]

win7 has only a text boot menu , it does like that with win8 boot menu...

linux grub is very good at checking and finding boot system like windows or even grub4dos .

 

the best way to handle the "boot menus" is to use one hd per os and not some partitions ...then using bios menu you boot what you want .

it is easier than trying to create multiboot menu

[pscEx]

Thanks for te explanation!

I only wanted to publish what I saw. I can live with the current behaviour. I do not reboot so often.

 

BTW: Multiple HDs is difficult in my S540 laptop.   

 

Peter

[misty]

@pscEx
Maybe try using the following bcdedit command -

bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy

This assumes the Windows 10 entry is the default menu entry - adjust and use a GUID value as required. Applying this setting will hopefully use the Windows Vista/7 style boot menu instead of the metro style menu. Haven't actually tested this myself as I use self contained BCD stores for each OS.

Regards,

Misty

[sixcentgeorge]

i searched a bit what is your computer ...and found that it has a bios update made last month..

http://support.lenov...s/thinkpad-s540

 

you can see a test : http://www.notebookc...k.111259.0.html

 

after updating bios , i would check what cpu i can use instead of the one coming from factory that has an intel gpu...

i had one with an hp with a touchscreen...ebay has a lot of cpu that are sometimes at very low price .

 

beside that , double check the slot formats , you can reuse the wifi or the ssd card slot with ssd ...called mSATA SSD

 

here is a hd that can hold two :

http://www.ebay.fr/i...=item4882015a50

 

and a list of them :

http://www.ebay.fr/s...TA SSD&_sacat=0

[pscEx]

@pscEx
Maybe try using the following bcdedit command -

bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy

This assumes the Windows 10 entry is the default menu entry - adjust and use a GUID value as required. Applying this setting will hopefully use the Windows Vista/7 style boot menu instead of the metro style menu. Haven't actually tested this myself as I use self contained BCD stores for each OS.

Regards,

Misty

 

@misty: First: Many thanks, I'll try this.

 

But second: Maybe that you already know that I am a programmer with a lot of experience in different high and low level languages, including the corresponding APIs.

But my knowledge about many of Billy the Door's command line tools is like the knowledge of (German phrase translated) "Cow's knowledge about sunday".

 

What happens, when this command fails?

 

Can I back up / copy some BCDxxx (before!), and restore when necessary?

 

Peter

[sixcentgeorge]

you can backup the file using a linux live : ubuntu or mint ..

a second windows can not .

 

there are tools made to handle BCD...

[misty]

@pscEx

What happens, when this command fails?

Can I back up / copy some BCDxxx (before!), and restore when necessary?

You can always reset it with -

bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy standard

Backing up the BCD store before modifying it is still a good idea -

bcdedit /export <filename>

This command exports the contents of the system store into a file.  This file
can be used later to restore the state of the system store.  This command is
only valid for the system store.

<filename>          The filename to be used as the destination for the export.
                    If the filename contains spaces, it must be enclosed in
                    quotation marks ("").

E.g. (run cmd as admin)

bcdedit /export "D:\BCD.bak"

And check. E.g.

bcdedit /store "D:\BCD.bak" /enum all

That's assuming the BCD store was mounted and is in use as the system store - otherwise just copy it manually if you can see it (might need to enable ShowSuperHidden in the registry) or use the commandline to copy it (should be visible from a command prompt even without ShowSuperHidden being set in the registry).



Misty

P.s. You can't copy the BCD store if it's in use as a system store - try the /export switch first.

[Wonko the Sane]

 

Maybe that you already know that I am a programmer with a lot of experience in different high and low level languages, including the corresponding APIs.

 

... and with a surprising allergy to looking for (let alone finding) documentation and reading it:

http://www.mistyrebo...p_bcd_store.htm

which are however not entirely "news" as the base method was mentioned since 2010 in the original notes by diddy:

http://diddy.boot-land.net/bcdedit/

http://diddy.boot-la...p_bcd_store.htm

 

duly mentioned in the guide by Misty:

http://reboot.pro/to...and-bcd-stores/

http://www.mistyrebo...Edit/index.html

http://www.mistyrebo...ntroduction.htm

 

These notes are based upon diddy's BCDEdit Notes and have been adapted with the kind permission of the original author. Whilst they are not intended to be a definitive guide to BCD stores or using the bcdedit tool, a comprehensive list of commands for several versions of BCDEdit have been included as a reference.

 

 

Wonko

[Wonko the Sane]

Well, look who's talking. You posted in this thread with no intention of contributing anything with your post, but only to attack PscEx, who is an admin/mod/Team Reboot member (look who isn't anymore because he stepped down, couldn't take the pressure, eh?), is probably older and more experienced than you (in life as well as computing generally), and has a higher post count. And yet you believe yourself to be "a minor and obscure deity, Lord of IPL and booting matters". You're far from being a deity or a lord, but rather, just a mere mortal like the rest of us. Get off your high horse already.

On the contrary, I provided links to all the documentation needed to learn how to backup the \boot\BCD (which is what he actually asked for) with several possible approaches.

 

And sure, pscEx is a few years my senior and of course, having been a professional programmer for most of his life he knows much more than me (and than many other people around) on many aspects of computing and programming , as a matter of fact he is the main co-Author of the original Winbuilder and the Author of the new one, besides the Author of numberless little utilities published on reboot.pro .

 

Still he has a few (self-declared BTW) "blind spots" in the technicalities of the early parts of booting and although he is more than capable of finding documentation, sometimes he simply doesn't look for it and needs to be pointed to it, it is perfectly normal.

 

 

Wonko

[sixcentgeorge]

the easy way to backup is to use linux because there is no "trustedinstaller"....this M$ sucker fucks that plus many other things

to edit the BCD , beside few commands at prompt , only tools like bcdeditor or visualbcd should be used ...or a reinstall...