42 replies to this topic

[AlexData]

I want to run XP from an USB on any computer

am i right if i say that XP running in SAFE MODE is using virtual drivers
and drivers that all hardware capable of running xp, can use
so that an XP install running in safemode would be usable on any pc?

I want this to be only the files neccessary to get into XP (desktop enviroment)
and be able to use EXPLORER (file managing) and to run programs (GHOST, DEFRAG)

Simply put...
XP as small as possible (only those files loaded when runnning safemode)
no need for fancy grafic or games/other utilities...
Just plain XP with NTFS read/write, ability to use EXPLORER for file copying
and running programs (standalone .EXE or thinstalls perhaps)
from an USB drive preferrably...

It could also be some type of IMAGE loaded from the USB and into RAM
running XP, and then I could simply browse TOOLS from a folder on the USB

Is this possible, and HOW to make it so that I can use this as a backup/fix tool
on any pc (capable of running windows) using VGA and/or virtual drivers
just like SAFEMODE does...?

[was_jaclaz]

First thing, welcome to the board.

The biggest problem would be accessing SATA/AHCI drives.

I don't think, but I may be completely and utterly wrong , that safe mode would work without them.

A "Full XP on USB" is anyway something that is a bit more difficult to achieve, a "basic" PE should be much easier to achieve on USB, something like picoXP.

Installing XP on a USB stick may be daunting, you should read the tutorials by Dietmar (find links to them in his signature):
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=14181
The ngine.de "simplified" tutorial:
http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8
And try the automated way (simpler):
http://www.usboot.org/tiki-index.php

Explorer is both a filemanager and a shell, I would rather use cmd.exe as a shell and another filemanager.

A project, completely and utterly experimental, but that seems to me exactly what you need/want, is XPCLI:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3717

Though building procedure is awful (I did it with one of my "dinosaur" batch scripts, and USB support has to be added manually) but once built, it is already fairly "portable".

Since you will use SuperVGA resolution, 800x600, you'll have no problems with video.

You may want to try adding UNIATA to the build:
http://alter.org.ua/...ft/win/uni_ata/

Any motherboard that has in BIOS a setting for SATA/AHCI<->IDE emulation (the large majority) will work with "plain" "Dual channel PCI IDE", in the rare case UNIATA won't work.

You have LOTS of thing to read, understand, search, experiment with: you'd better start....

jaclaz

[wendy]

Build your windows with the generic SATA drives in place. This would solve this problem.

I am not sure that a full Winxp on a flash-drive would be good, but a USB hard drive should not cause hassles. Still.

To boot windows in safe mode, create a boot.ini on the USB, and put an operating system with a /SOS at the end of it. You can select from this menu, eg Windows full, or windows safe mode, or (eg) something else.

[AlexData]

Hehe... Thanks for all the links and info Jacklaz.
and for your Sata/Boot.ini tip Wendy!

Just to make sure we're on the same page!
The XP install on this USB doesnt need to be FULL, just big enough (read; the needed files) to be able to display explorer, and to run apps like Ghost and Defrags, and perhaps Thinstalled programs (standalone virtualized programs)

I've been playing with some of this before, and I once made a CD based on MiniPE (years ago) that still works, and another simple CD with a DOS boot sector that displays an CONFIG.SYS menu and then influences AUTOEXEC.BAT to do specific things, after you've chosen something from the menu. Both these CD's are working, and are used weekly as they are some of the greatest tools i have!
(Credit to whoever made it able for me to make those!!!)

Thing is, USB media is larger (2-8gb without a problem) and is REWRITABLE, and I can store different .GHO images on them!
One for my main pc's, and one SYSPREP'ped image to re-install XP on other pc's, fully updated and included with the most used programs..(all we need to add later is drivers, yeah!)

So, I'll read your links, and think a little about what I read, and then see if any of that can be used the way I want...

Thing is, If we have availible all the files XP uses to SAFEMODE, and then make a bootable USB-stick with a BOOT.INI with the /SOS switch, then in theory, this XP should be able to load on most common pc's (and yes, we might add SATA drivers too, just in case!!)

Any idea's on how to get XP narrowed down to only the SAFEMODE files?
Im tempted to install XP on a VirtualPC, using a REAL partition, where i at will can delete files and folders until safemode does no longer work, but if anyone else has better idea's, I'll try them too!

[wimb]

You can boot with 115 MB LiveXP BootSDI.img IMAGE file in 30 sec from RAMDISK loaded in few seconds from Harddisk or in about 5 minutes from USB-stick.
This is useful as Escape Boot Option in case Booting with Windows XP may fail, so that you can Repair your System or use Ghost for System Backup and System Restore (with speed of 3 GB / min from Harddisk to Harddisk).

You can use Make_USB.exe of U_XP_SET package to make USB-stick Bootable with LiveXP or use BOOT_IMG.exe to Install LiveXP as Boot Option in boot.ini Menu or GRUB4DOS menu.lst on your Harddisk.
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5306

LiveXP BootSDI.img file is most easily made by using one of the Stable Projects of amalux e.g. lx101408cxs.exe where you have to add Ghost Plus!.script
Tutorial of amalux http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4111
Download from http://amalux.winbuilder.net/

[was_jaclaz]

So, I'll read your links, and think a little about what I read, and then see if any of that can be used the way I want...

Good.

Thing is, If we have availible all the files XP uses to SAFEMODE, and then make a bootable USB-stick with a BOOT.INI with the /SOS switch, then in theory, this XP should be able to load on most common pc's (and yes, we might add SATA drivers too, just in case!!)

Any idea's on how to get XP narrowed down to only the SAFEMODE files?
Im tempted to install XP on a VirtualPC, using a REAL partition, where i at will can delete files and folders until safemode does no longer work, but if anyone else has better idea's, I'll try them too!

Yep, lot's of ideas , but we should wait for your checking the "catalog" of what has already been done.

Mind you, I do like people willing to experiment and opening new paths , but if you are wanting to re-invent the wheel:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=2037&st=8
make sure you invent a "better wheel":
http://www.boot-land...?...c=5881&st=5



I forgot to give you a pointer to an "evolution" or, maybe better said "branch" of XPCLI, GluonXP:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=6393&st=0

(as well highly experimental and limited in features)

You've got LOTS of things to read, understand and try, you'd better start working!



jaclaz

[AlexData]

Oki...

Good tips, and yes, a LOT to read...
some of the idea's fits, some is a bit "out-there" (maybe)

Anyhow...

I got down to buisness, trying the simple path first!

Took mu USB-STICK and formatted it into FAT (4gb stick)
using the HP-Format Tool (I'll post it on my homepage)

http://www.alexdata.com/USBBOOT

And then copied the following files to the USB-STICK:


ntldr
ntdetect.com
boot.ini


and modified BOOT.INI to look like this:

;ALEXDATA BOOT MENU - Boot XP into SAFEMODE from USB

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="WINDOWS SAFEMODE DISK0:PART1" /SOS

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="WINDOWS NORMALE DISK0:PART1" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT

So when I boot my computer and it starts from the USB-STICK i get the menu where I can choose from the two above...

Then I went on to make an WINDOWS folder on my USB-STICK, and included the SYSTEM32 folder in it, and then the CONFIG folder inside there again...
I copied all .NLS files into SYSTEM32, and all .DLL files into SYSTEM32 on my USB-STICK (from my OS, xp-pro-sp3) and then some of the files I know windows uses, like;
ntoskrnl.exe
and others
(i will make a filelist as soon as i get past the SAFEMODE's boottime filelisting, where it loads DLL's and such...)

Anyhow, maybe it all will fail when it tries to load NTOSKRNL.EXE and the BOOVID.DLL since my current os is not optimalized to boot from USB (it was not installed from an USB-ENABLED XP-INSTALL) hehe

Anyhow, I'll keep you posted on my progress, and my step-backs...

Due to work and GF, I have only limited time to create anything,hehe!

[AlexData]

Well.. after copying the files it asks for (and probably some more) it got past the black loading screen, where it lists the files that it loads...
Then it showed me the "Welcome to windows" screen (or similar to it) and stated how much RAM i had, and some other white text, before it BSOD'ed and restarted!
So, thing is... this seems rather possible, guess one of the files needed to be loaded, like NTOSKRNL.EXE is cutting the power to the USB and thus giving me the BSOD error...
I will have to modify my current REGISTRY to show the BSOD, then copy the C:\windows\system32\config folder into the USB again, and then see what happens next... It will be easier once I can read the BSOD message, heh!

[was_jaclaz]

Bets are not allowed on the board, but predictions are.

My crystal ball tells me the it is a 0x0000007b STOP ERROR.......

jaclaz

[AlexData]

Guess ya all saw it coming...

BSOD: 0x0000007B

So it seems that just copying an already running XP (not clean) and not having enabled it for USB (during install) and so on, yields me an error...

Any good idea's (yes, i will do a clean install, preferrably an USB-enabled one) but other than that?

Anyone with an already USB-enabled install, trying the same, getting any closer than i did???

[AlexData]

Can anyone explain closer what that error might mean?

How to fix it (other ways than those I've already thinked about)

Any idea's... anyone tried the similar approach like me, but with an USB enabled OS... ?

I'll try to post my filelist so far "Called FileList-1" at my homepage, today perhaps...
www.alexdata.com/USBBOOT

[was_jaclaz]

Guess ya all saw it coming...

BSOD: 0x0000007B

So it seems that just copying an already running XP (not clean) and not having enabled it for USB (during install) and so on, yields me an error...

Waiter, taste the soup:
http://gregdek.livej....com/14554.html

Aha. Aha!

Any good idea's (yes, i will do a clean install, preferrably an USB-enabled one) but other than that?

Reading the whole loooong thread on 911CD and learn how to enable an already installed XP?
but it will take you some time....
Maybe Tutorial #3 may suit you:
http://www.911cd.net...o...4181&st=228

Anyone with an already USB-enabled install, trying the same, getting any closer than i did???

You appear to be missing a point, it's a binary 0/1 or ON/OFF switch :
if the build is NOT "USB enabled", it will produce a 0x0000007b BSOD (binary 0/OFF)
if the build is "USB enabled" it will boot without errors (binary 1/ON)



jaclaz

[AlexData]

Okey...

I did make a new CD (XP Pro VLK SP1) with nothing more than the original cd + sp1 update (using nLite) and installed that to a HDD (to C: hdd0:partition1)

Then I got hold of the edited "ntdetect.com" and replaced that, I also edited the "usb.inf" the "usbport.inf" the "usbstor.inf" and created a new SYSTEM Hive following the GUIDE found at this location: http://www.911cd.net...o...4181&st=228
(also deleted the files the guide mentioned)

Then I copied this over to my USB-Stick (that is bootable and FAT formatted) and in my BOOT.INI file I have the /SOS option so to start the system in SAFEMODE, still i get a BSOD...

So, SP1 whom is reported to work on with USB, and the necessary USB edits both in registry and in INF files...

Still.. no luck.. So my question is then, what might I be doing wrong? Anyone care to take a look at my files? I'll put the whole bunch of files into a ZIP and that can be found at http://www.alexdata....guide1files.zip
and take a look, maybe i've screwed up on something!?!?

[AlexData]

Wish someone could present a list of the only files needed to boot XP into the desktop enviroment, either in safemode or normal mode... and how to make that work with an USB-STICK (not usb-hdd)

What are the basic files XP needs to boot a workable explorer (the shell/ui) where we can do the normal file copy/paste and browse files... (basic desktop, no other programs, internet, only the pure basics that enables us to run the windows UI we all know... (something like miniPE for usb... hehe)

[was_jaclaz]

In other words we should check one by one everything you have done and find the solution.

The alternative being you choosing and following EXACTLY one of the suggested methods, succeed, then compare yourself what the differences are.

Now, first one means a lot of work for us, the second lots of work for you....which one to choose?..... let me think....

For once in my life (besides saying "this is mine you cant take it" ), I'll take the BLUE PILL
http://www.arrod.co....says/matrix.php

Sorry.

If you take the time to read the already given link to XPCLI (the WHOLE thread) you will find the answers to your last post.


I guess it's time to suggest you reading points #f. (all of them) of "common sense advice" appended to the Board Rules:
http://www.boot-land...?act=boardrules


jaclaz

[AlexData]

Hi again...

As you suggested Jaclaz, i've read the post from A-Z and reinstalled XP SP1, re-edited the files, the registry, "re-compiled" the ntdetect.com, and put it all together (for the 4th time, following the guide on this page: http://www.911cd.net...o...4181&st=228 )

Thing is... it still doesn't work...

The usb-stick is bootable, it fat formatted, and the files are copied while using a miniPE CD, so that all files are "not in use" while being copied...

When I have edited the reigstry, and the files, the machine (either from USB or from HDD) does the following...

It shows the BOOT.INI menu, then it comes up with the screen "windows did not successfully boot/shutdown last time you used it, what do you want to do?" (free translation from norwegian to english,
and then if you choose safemode, or normal mode, it gives you either a BLUE SCREEN http://www.alexdata....T/ErrorBLUE.jpg, or just a black screen (not loading, not blinking cursor, just black)

So, I might have edited some file wrong somehow? That is why I posted the files, so that you folks, whom are better than me, and may have done this before, might look at them and find the bug...
like: "ahh, you forgot to write usb.inf correctly"

I've read all suggested posts, several times, still have no luck replicating it...
My "first" test where I made copies of all edited files is here:
http://www.alexdata....guide1files.zip

and my "second" attempt is here:
http://www.alexdata....guide2files.zip
(in this scenario, I made a .BAT file to automatically copy the correct files, to the correct locations, after I first copied all files to ONE folder, and edited them... Then I clicked the BAT and it did the magic of putting the correct files, in the correct places... Still I get the exact same errors...

I will read the XPCLI again.. just to see if I might have missed out on something... Or if something there, migth be usefull for the guide im following (see link above)

So far, thanks for suggestions and idea's (i do indeed try all of them, up to several times, I do like to learn from this, not just download something already finished, that works)

If i wanted to, i could download many different "finished works" and use them, but I do indeed want to learn from this... so i dont...

Thanks a million Jaclaz,and all you others, for links and suggestions!!

[AlexData]

I've now started again...
This time I'll do it step-by-step in a Virtual (vmWare) machine.

*Click here for the guide im following*

Step1:
a. Install XP SP1
b. Disable pagefile
c. edit boot.ini (so that I can see that im booting the right sys)

[boot loader]timeout=5default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS[operating systems]multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Pro SP1" /fastdetectmulti(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP SafeMode" /SOS

d. replace original NTDETECT.COM with Dietmar's NTDETECT.COMe. Edit boot-options to DONT-REBOOT-ON-BSODf. REBOOT 1 - Check if everything works...(system booted and everything seems normal)g. Apply the REG changes to the SYSTEM HIVE(mount vmdisk as virtual disk in XP, connect the hive in regedit, edit the hive accordingly (see AUTO-OTTO.REG) and save the new HIVE as SYSTEM (remove/replace the old one)h. REBOOT 2 - This gives me the BSOD 0x0000007B ( "usb" error)i. mount vmdisk as virtual disk in XP, and change the .INF files, remove the .PNF files...j. Went to C:\Windows\Inf and deleted the 3 *.PNF files(usb.pnf usbstor.pnf usbport.pnf)k. copied the usb.inf usbstor.inf usbport.inf files to the desktop and edited them according to the guide...usb-inf.zip)l. deleted the orginal files in the INF folder and copied in the edited one's ...m. Unmounted the vmdisk and started the virtual machine again
(edited until now: ntdetect, system hive, and 3 inf files)
n. The machine starts, but shows the BSOD 0x00007B again !?!?

I must say i've followed things step-by-step here, as the guide says... Cant see what i've done wrong, according to the guide?!?

IM LOST NOW... LOST...
*maybe to be continued*

[was_jaclaz]

Wait a minute.

h. REBOOT 2 - This gives me the BSOD 0x0000007B ( "usb" error)

The 0x0000007B is not necessarily a "usb" error.
It means "inaccessible boot device".

But this REBOOT, which is NOT detailed in the guide, may be the problem as it will probably reset Registry values.

Try again WITHOUT this REBOOT.

Check also this thread, using marv's service you should be able to get away with it:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=22473

a. Install XP SP1

On where?

If you are using VMWare, did you add the specific VMWare hardware drivers?

I guess that it is not the "best" testing environment in the world.

Why don't you try with Qemu?

Qemu is a bit slower, but it's hardware is more "standard", meaning that it works with "normal" "Standard PCI dual Channel" without additional Mass Storage Devices (the LSI driver VMWare uses).

Get Qemu+QemuManager here:
http://www.davereyn.co.uk/download.htm
it's interface is similar to VMware, it shouldn't be difficult to get the hang of it.

I don't think the problem is your (Norwegian ) source, as Dietmar did it with a German one.

Try reviewing this:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...19963&st=23

Try using the .in_ files attached there (you can use 7-zip to extract .in_ to .inf)


jaclaz

[AlexData]

Now... tried without that reboot (the H. step) and with it... still no luck...

Also...i checked out the...

Check also this thread, using marv's service you should be able to get away with it:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=22473

And as you can read at the END of that post, I ran into some problems using his BAT file... Strange error indeed...

So, at the time being, im looking for ways to get to EDIT the SYSTEM hive, after doing the partial install as suggested by MARV... (read the last posts in there, and you'll better understand my current problem)

This is a struggle to get to work...

What XP versions do you folks got this to work on... and by versions I mean both type and servicepack level...

Im trying to get this to work on:
type: VLK Professional XP
level: SP1 (servicepack1)
lang: Norwegian

[was_jaclaz]

My previous post contains, besides 1 statement:
2 suggestions about possible causes
3 questions
1 another suggestion to try

If the first 2 suggestions do not work/are wrong, you shouldn't "branch" in finding out why program in 2nd suggestion is not working, you should for the moment set it aside, and go on along the "main" path, possibly answering to the questions and reporting about result of further suggestion.

At this point it is clear that something is "not as it should".

Maybe it's time to forget EVERYTHING written before on this thread and every attempt done till now and try the automated way:
http://www.usboot.org/tiki-index.php

Since the latter works 99% of the times (or even more), it is anyway a method to check that (for example) Norwegian source (or it's SP1) or your testing environment, or whatever you are currently doing/using/running is OK.

Try to see it not as the way to produce the final result that you seek, but only as a kind of "diagnostic program" to exclude some of the possible causes for your current problems.

jaclaz

[AlexData]

My previous post contains, besides 1 statement:
2 suggestions about possible causes
3 questions
1 another suggestion to try

Question1: I did not install any vmWare drivers, or the vmWare addon, that makes everything run faster/smoother.

Question2: Qemu and vmWare is much the same, if you install no drivers, I haven't tried QEMU, but i've tried on a normal intel-pc (installing to the HDD C: and using MiniPE to edit the files) same results on all approaches so far...
Guess, I will try the QEMU too...

Question3: the MARV service. I tried that, and it failed.
Could not write to the SYSTEM hive, for reasons unknown!

I seem to have forgotten to try the .INF files from that one post there... Will have a look at them...

I will try your suggestions as to move on and go with the USBBOT-WIKI thingy...
something must work, and that one sounds like a winner...

Thanks again for all your suggestions, and all! you're really something of a genious Jaclaz! you're a good man!

[was_jaclaz]

I see that you are quite used to common conventions used on PC's , thus I will try and repeat question 0

a. Install XP SP1

On where?

I meant on WHAT device?

Examples:

• An internal HD mapped as physicaldrive
• An USB device mapped as physicaldrive
• A RAW disk image
• A RAW disk image with a proper .pln description
• Using the image as SCSI disk or IDE?

jaclaz

[AlexData]

a. Install XP SP1
On where???

I meant on WHAT device?
EX:
An internal HD mapped as physicaldrive
An USB device mapped as physicaldrive
A RAW disk image
A RAW disk image with a proper .pln description
Using the image as SCSI disk or IDE?

All my tests has been tested on both vmware on one of its standard disk images (.vmdk)
And also tested by installing into via vmware and into a physical partition on my hdd (a partition previously formatted using Logical Disk Manager in XP)
And then finally, all methods has also been tested using my laptop (Lenovo - Celeron M 530(1.73GHz), 512MB RAM, 120GB)
and installing to C:\ and using miniPE to do edits in the registry/files...

PS: im usally quite tired when reading and replying to posts, as I do so like 5or6 in the morning, and 10or11 in the night... after or before work...hehe

[AlexData]

Hi all...

This weekend i've been able to test the USBOOT.ORG method, aswell as QEMU... And I succeded in getting the USB-STICK to boot using USBOOT.ORG method...

I learnt that USBOOT needed SP2, so I installed XP SP1 on an QEMU virtual machine, then I upgraded it to SP2 from inside the virtual machine, then I copied over USBOOT and ran that, and got that almost successfully installed (some errors on some KBD drivers)
Then I shutdown the qemu-vm and mounted the image as a partition in my normal XP, formatted the partition using the HP tool that i've mentioned before (also on my homepage) and then copied the files from the mounted partition and over to the usb-stick...
Booted the machine from the USB-STICK and got into windows from there...

So I guess that shows us the following:
1.My machine can boot from usb.
2.My usb-stick can be used as bootable device.
3.XP SP2 VLK Norwegian can be USB BOOT ENABLED.

Only thing is... I NLITED the SP1 install inorder to get it down to about 7-800mb (after installation) so its not an totally unmodified XP SP2 install (I removed all crap software and DLLCACHE and some other stuff from the ROOT of the CD)

Anyhow.. Now that we for sure know that my PC and USBSTICK is bootable, how do you suggest I continue from here?

Should I perhaps try the REG+INF on a SP2 install instead of an SP1?

Im sure that SP2 does work with this, but can I apply the REG+INF on an SP2 install and expect it to work? Installing a clean SP2 into a QEMU VM and mount it as a partition, then do the REG+INF modifications and copy all that to a USB-STICK... (after modifying the SP2, and copying it to USB, can i restart the QEMU VM and expect it to boot?)

Its been a busy weekend of work and valentinesday (gf is happy now)
but I managed to get something working!
Looking for suggestions, and I like the way Jaclaz thinks! hehe!
(and the way all the others who have managed this, think too!)

[was_jaclaz]

Good.

SP2 is NOT a requisite of USB booting (since Dietmar did it with SP1 originally) probably it is a requisite of USBoot.org.

In the XPCLI thread I used both "gold" and SP1, and cdob tested SP2.

Now that you have a working USB build, export the relevant keys from the Registry, create a new "plain" install in Qemu, try applying the .REG's, and try placing the image on the stick.

It is possible that in the non-nlited install you have some service that causes conflicts.

You should check which services you have running in "normal" build and on the nlited install.

Then I shutdown the qemu-vm and mounted the image as a partition in my normal XP, formatted the partition using the HP tool that i've mentioned before (also on my homepage) and then copied the files from the mounted partition and over to the usb-stick...

I am not sure to have understood the process you followed.

If you "copied files" you are deemed to failure as WHAT will take care of the Disk Signature in the MBR?

I am NOT familiar with the innards of the Usboot.org workings, it is possible that ...Tim... (the Author) has a workaround for it implemented in his program.

You could alternatively use a "plainer" approach, something along the lines of this:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5000
http://www.boot-land...?...c=5000&st=1

i.e. having an image which IS the stick and the stick that IS the image.

jaclaz