33 replies to this topic

[Brito]

I didn't missed your point. I just noted that both numbers were incredible short when compared to bugs reported on defcon and development section.

All I'm asking is to use a forum section called "bugtracker" and another one called "wishlist" to keep things tidy from here forward.

The reasons why the forum location is preferred were already mentioned:
http://www.boot-land...?...ost&p=92446

[Galapo]

The reasons why the forum location is preferred were already mentioned:

I'm not sure these reasons necessarily outweigh the two I gave:

Usage shows that it was preferred. And in being able to handle bugs, it is indeed preferrable as Peter and Wonko have stated.

I really do think Peter should have some say in this. If he thinks the old bugtracker is preferrable, why can't we move to using it better, rather than moving to a method which is not geared to managing bugs and requests as efficiently?

So far I have seen:

Those for keeping old bugtracker: Galapo, Peter, Wonko, Lancelot.
Those for using new bugtracker: Nuno.

Maybe we should have a poll on the issue? But then again, it should be about the developer best managing bug reports and requests, so user issues shouldn't rate as high. Decision should be made between you and Peter.

Regards,
Galapo.

[pscEx]

Going by the topic dates, I think September was when the new bugtracker was added.

I did not really recognize a new Bug Tracker here.
When I came into, I has been only accidental becaose "something interesting was on top of the latest posts.

But I always visited the old one intentionally.

I realized the new one when I was trying to click "Fixed" and there was no possibility.

That was the time when I asked my question.

Peter

[Brito]

I'm really sad.

In one hand I see:
- an external bug tracker that is considered useful by bright members, yet ignored by many others.
- multiple bugs about beta/stable/whatever being posted in huge discussions in the forums
- little activity on the external tracker
- complaints from a few bright members that wb requests are ignored
- complaints from wb developers that bug feedback from other users only appears when a stable is announced
- complaints that only 20% is outputted even when 100% effort is given
- nobody except a few members know for sure when a bug is fixed or not because the talk is somewhere between lengthy posts and rarely make it's way to the bug tracker
- unless you visit the bug tracker specifically, people won't follow what was posted there


In the other hand I see:
- a very active forum where topics on the frontpage get read and replied in minutes
- a place that is readable by people who download and use winbuilder.exe
- a chance of moving bugs posted on development and defcon onto the bug tracker
- the opportunity to ensure that bugs and requests get their own topics

-------------------------

There are a lot of issues with bug reporting. It's not efficient. We may have an efficient and professional external bug tracker outside the forum but it is ignored by most users and the natural tendency is to simply use the forum because the external bug tracker is a lonely place to be and believe me that wb developers like feedback.

-------------------------

If you want a voting, I say there is no need to vote and I'll explain why.

I installed this external bug tracker to allow all the good conditions that became available for developers and really hoped for three years that it would work as intended, to grow as a popular tool to track bug and requests but I'm the first person to admit that this isn't working and already pointed out the reasons on the top and a few other topics before this one.

Nevertheless, if you want to give me some hope just say:
"Nuno,

I've reached a consensus with Peter, Ctmag, Lancelot, MaxReal, Paraglider, fxscrpt, amalux, Medevil, Ludovici, JonF, SteelBone, Pedrole15 and ten other active developers.

We all agree to start using exclusively the external bug tracker from here forward to report any bugs and feature requests, we will set an example for others to follow and we are sure that this is the best possible way to solve all the bug tracking problems that you have listed.

You can now rest assured."

Otherwise, we need to make changes. I'm only asking to use the bug tracker on the forum section and write an individual topic for each bug. It's not much, quite simple for everyone to keep track of what is being done.

You see now why I'm sad about discussions like this?

I see no need for wrestling about the reasons to keep the old bug tracker or not, just consider all these reasons that I've listed before and tell me what you would do in my position to improve things. (because in a true sense, you are already in my position with the same administrator rights on the site)

It's not easy to make changes. I can't do them on my own, I just ask that you also take part in improving our current development plan for wb.

[Lancelot]

I'm really sad.

I am more sad than you. Because for the first time I see Nuno acting like this. (and i am new compared to others)

I see none of my posts read !!! where I give answers of moooost of the things (where you are mistaken) you wrote (Don't worry, I will not rewrite 3rd times).

If you take ideas from me,
I can find a consensus between your concerns and all other active developers. ???????

[Galapo]

- multiple bugs about beta/stable/whatever being posted in huge discussions in the forums

I think that is a rarer case and more often bugs are reported to the bugtracker. In the lastest case, that was purely because Peter made the announcement that a new release was imminent and it was more confusing to post to the bugtracker given the uncertainty of version being discussed: 078, 079, or 080. Much of what was being discuessed there related to the bugtracker: 0x7 entries, %WBexe% variable, etc.

Nevertheless, if you want to give me some hope just say:
"Nuno,

I've reached a consensus with Peter, Ctmag, Lancelot, MaxReal, Paraglider, fxscrpt, amalux, Medevil, Ludovici, JonF, SteelBone, Pedrole15 and ten other active developers.


We all agree to start using exclusively the external bug tracker from here forward to report any bugs and feature requests, we will set an example for others to follow and we are sure that this is the best possible way to solve all the bug tracking problems that you have listed.

You can now rest assured."

I can't speak for the others, but I agree that I'll post there always from now on (if the old bugtracker is reactivated).

But like I said, let's hear more from Peter. He's the most active developer currently. Let's do what will be most helpful for him. If that's using a more traditional bugtracker, that's fine with me. But if that's using a forum-style bugtracker, that's fine with me if that will help him more. Once that's made, then we stick to it and actively encourage bugs and requests to be reported in the appropriate location. But if it's the forum-style, then Peter should be allowed to do what he deems necessary to keep track of things since bugs can't be sorted like on the old bugtracker: changing titles, deleting posts, etc.

Regards,
Galapo.

[Wonko the Sane]

Maybe we should have a poll on the issue? But then again, it should be about the developer best managing bug reports and requests, so user issues shouldn't rate as high. Decision should be made between you and Peter.

JFYI:
http://www.boot-land...?...10509&st=29

@Nuno
I do understand perfectly your concerns, as they are strangely similar to the ones I expressed several times, but IMNSHO the approach you have taken to try and solve them is totally inadequate.
If your intentions were to stir the waters a little bit, good, you managed to do it!
If your intentions were to take out of your hat a nice solving trick, you failed miserably.

• 
  
  
  
  All you managed was:
• to upset peter and most of the actually contributing members
• to be told publicly by yours truly, in his usually grumpy manners, how much your approach is wrong
• to have effectively wasted some of the 100% in such a way that the actual output fell from 20% to 0%

peter is the main developer, like him or not (I personally like him 87.34% of the time, but his work gets my approval 100% ) it should go the other way round, peter should ask you the resources he needs, and to organize his "working environment" the way he likes and he is used to, and you should try within of course budget and resources available, to have his needs fulfilled.

You should remember - should you have forgotten it - that peter wrote programs before you started going to school or possibly before you were born, and though lot of new things have come out in the last 20 years, the principles of the workflow of writing a program have not been changed that much.




Wonko

[homes32]

Some suggestions for improving and organizing the "Forum Style" bugtracker

consider the following structure

Boot Land > Groups > WinBuilder > Bug Tracker

-Bugs on the latest stable edition of WinBuilder.exe
\--[Subforum] Closed - all closed bug reports get moved to here and possibly locked
--[Forum Proper] all open bug reports go here with "Blockers" being pinned. the topic # is prepended to the thread title or description

-Bugs found in beta versions of WinBuilder.exe
\--[Subforum] Closed - all closed bug reports get moved to here and possibly locked
--[Forum Proper] all open bug reports go here with "Blockers" being pinned. the topic # is prepended to the thread title or description

-Wishlist and Requests
\--[Subforum] Implemented - once a wishlist item as been implemented topic gets moved here and possibly locked
--[Subforum] Flagged for future version - topics that are to be implemented in a future version get moved here and the topic # prepended to the thread title or description
--[Forum Proper] All requests start here and become inactive/archived/disappear/moved to Dead subform/deleted after XX number of days without comment or action. (this keeps things easy to read and focus on important/feasible requests

[Brito]

Ok, that would help to have things categorized and easier to navigate.