57 replies to this topic

[OCMan]

Hello everyone, here is my contribution, I have just build my new vista pe from 1.2RC1b CAPI project, the result is perfect , but the problem is fast usb 2.0 booting....
After searching the web and having tried all the method possible , kexec-loader , DOS bootdisk with usb2.0 drivers load GRUB etc... it seems it was impossible.

BUT I have found the solution!!!!
And it is simplier as you might think!
Just build your vistape with multiboot (grub enabled) and use the finalize script to create the USB booting files etc. ( I used FAT32 for the USB device )
Just download the latest PLop version 5.03 , it contains ageneric floppy boot image...
now take this "plpbt.img" and copy it in the boot directory of the USB device.
Simply add this code to the menu.lst :

title Load USB2.0
find --set-root /boot/plpbt.img
map --mem /boot/plpbt.img (fd0)
map --hook
chainloader (fd0)+1
rootnoverify (fd0)
map --floppies=1
boot

That's all !!!!
So what it does????
With my gigabyte P35-DS4, wich supports usb booting, the speed is limited to USB1.1 althought the bios support 2.0, so :
- I but on the USB device and it put me to GRUB at 1.1 speed :-( ...
- Now I just launch the line Load USB2.0 from the GRUB Menu, it loads the PLop bootload,
- I just select to boot from USB in PLop,
I see Plop launching EHCI detection and GRUB is now appearing, I launch vistape logo in 10seconds now instead of three minutes!!!!!!
I launch Acronis mediarescue ISO in ram incredibily fast, and parted magic seem like it is installed over an HDD!!!

So I can confirm it works!!!!
On a second computer, wich support usb booting, but is equiped with a VIA southbridge 8237, the default usb booting speed is acceptable, but if I try the PLop trick mentioned above, the speed is really decreased....
So what can we say?
I Think this is a EASY WORTH TRY, as if it works, the benefit is incredible ! and it is the only solution for the time being to do that only with ONE usb stick ( not one usb stick and a floppy disk with plop or a cd with plop, this is a all in one integrated solution!!!!!!!!


Please make return here!
I 'am tryng to find a way of making UBCD4Win loading with it to see if it improves the loading speed too , but for the time being with my tests, seems it work for both linux (parted magic- acrons )and vistape.
The advantage of this solution is that you just have to try booting vistape, with standard usb booting capabilities of th e motherboard. If it seems the progresss bar is rellay slow and you don't have time for a coffee, just reset computer, and give a try to the Plop trick, maybe you could boot in less than a minute!!!!


Here is the status of the bootloader for the upcoming version : things look promising!!!!!!!!

"Tue 28/Jul/2009

USB UHCI driver updated. Now its 2x faster. The driver update will be in the next release. You want to test the new driver? Then contact me.
Sat 18/Jul/2009

plpgenbtldr v0.6 released. This version works now fine with NTFS and FAT partitions. Source code completely rewritten."

To download PLop, go to its website at : Plop Download Page

[online]

Hi OCMan, welcome on board!

I can confirm/share your enthusiasm about PLoP: it works like a charm.

Note that you can simply use the "plpbt.bin" file from within the "plpbt-5.0.3" zip archive copying it (42 KB compared to 1,40 MB of "plpbt.img") in your "boot" folder on your UFD and the following entries in your "menu.lst"

title PLoP Boot Manager

root (hd0,0)

kernel /boot/plpbt.bin

Btw: note that the "boot" command is not longer needed in the "menu.lst", but only using the commandline.

[was_jaclaz]

Small correction :

Btw: note that the "boot" command is not longer needed in the "menu.lst", but only using the commandline.

the "boot" command was never been needed in menu.lst, at least since grub 0.97/grub4dos 0.4.1



jaclaz

[online]

Small correction :



the "boot" command was never been needed in menu.lst, at least since grub 0.97/grub4dos 0.4.1



jaclaz

...and I what I said?!

the "boot" command is not longer needed in the "menu.lst", but only using the commandline

jaclaz, (at least in this case) my words are just as good as yours!!!

Small edit by jaclaz:
removed the final "boot" command, as it is NOT needed when the set of commands in a menu.lst (but it is needed when testing from command line)

grub_for_dos-0.4.1.zip			1.3 MiB	  Wed Dec 14 2005

Only 3,5 years ago...

[maanu]

quote from the official site ,

I know this is very special. Maybe its useful for some people. You have to configure the plpbt.bin with plpcfgbt to use int19h instead of booting the operating system.

plpcfgbt int19h=on plpbt.bin

Now you have to start plpbt.bin with a boot manager like grub, syslinux or what ever during boot time (supported boot managers see here). Choose USB and the boot manager will install the usb driver and go back to your boot manager. If you start DOS you will have access to your usb drive as last harddisk. But remember, the usbdrive is only as "read only" device available.

although i can confirm it (i guess i have already somewhere in bootland ,dont remember where) , that it DOES work . at least when booting pe (2k3 or source) specially with ramboot. either map or map --mem is used/..

[was_jaclaz]

...and I what I said?!

Something slightly different, it is just an Italian->English or viceversa problem
this:

Btw: note that the "boot" command is not longer needed in the "menu.lst", but only using the commandline.

translates in italian to:

A proposito: notare che il comando "boot" non è più necessario nel menu.lst, solo quando si usa la riga di comando

this:

removed the final "boot" command, as it is NOT needed when the set of commands in a menu.lst (but it is needed when testing from command line

translates in italian to:

rimosso il comando "boot" alla fine, poiché NON è necessario quando la sequenza di comandi è all'interno di un menu.lst, (ma è necessario quando si fanno prove dalla riga di comando

longer:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Long
more properly "no longer" (not "not longer")

no longer
Not now as formerly: He no longer smokes.

implies that something has changed from a previous different status.



jaclaz

[ktp]

Booting USB 2.0 speed thanks to PLoP is not new :
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=6330

One interesting function of PLoP is that since it can boot from USB, it can boot from internal SD card reader which is USB 2.0, although the BIOS did not offer booting from SD card. The speed limit if then not from USB 2.0 but from the SD card speed (usually slow).

What is missing is probably the support for Firewire in PLoP, and the integration with grub4dos (this means at least that PLoP has to go for Open Source which is not actually the case).

My dream : grub4dos + PLoP + Syslinux + bcdw + fbinst + mbldr + True Crypt + freeware partition manager + disk imaging tool all united in single coherent package!

[OCMan]

QUOTE OFFICIAL SITE :
http://www.plop.at/e...anager.html#drv
(link/full quote added by jaclaz)

14. Using the Boot Manager as USB harddisk driver for DOS

I know this is very special. Maybe its useful for some people. You have to configure the plpbt.bin with plpcfgbt to use int19h instead of booting the operating system.

plpcfgbt int19h=on plpbt.bin

Now you have to start plpbt.bin with a boot manager like grub, syslinux or what ever during boot time (supported boot managers see here). Choose USB and the boot manager will install the usb driver and go back to your boot manager. If you start DOS you will have access to your usb drive as last harddisk. But remember, the usbdrive is only as "read only" device available.

If it works for you then use plpcfgbt int19h=on stm=hidden cnt=on cntval=1 dbt=usb plpbt.bin

To disable the usb driver from DOS see plpdisd.

Can some one explain it to me because that was the first thing I tried ( make a customized plpbt.bin with the plpcfbgt.exe tool that just launch usb2.0 and auto go back to GRUB4DOS but I didn't managed to do that, it launched but didn't go back to grub....

It could be cool because we just have to put a plpbt.bin that autoboots usb so just a simple title "activate USB2.0 if possible" item in the GRUBMenu, and just one key to be pressed.....
If someone managed, could he post it? ( the rightly modified plpbt.bin )

also the PLop author wrote we can ask him the new usb drivers to try it out, is there somoone who has asked him ???
If yes , please share experience!
thanks

[was_jaclaz]

Can some one explain it to me because that was the first thing I tried ( make a customized plpbt.bin with the plpcfbgt.exe tool that just launch usb2.0 and auto go back to GRUB4DOS but I didn't managed to do that, it launched but didn't go back to grub....

How did you try launching grub?
Like this:
http://www.plop.at/e...er.html#rungrub


How did you load DOS after that?

Or maybe it needs to be configured?
http://www.plop.at/e...r.html#plpcfgbt

jaclaz

[OCMan]

I think I was missunderstood..... My english is bad I think.....

I don't wanna go to DOS, I just Use Grub from grub4dos package, but i use the GRLDR, it is the default boot on my usb key.

the menu.lst contains info FOR lauching PLop and active USB2.0 ( I insist on the fact that at this time, I have already booted from usb to load this grub menu.)
So from Grub menu ( wich contain vistape, etc etc and PLop ), I laucnh PLop,
and so from PLop, I choose to boot on the USB ,
so It reload my USB key with the initial GRUB Menu BUT with USB2.0 activated if it wasn't. and then I can launch at fullspeed USB2.0

My Setup is as that :
1)Boot from USB=> 2)GRUB =>3)launch Plop manually from GRUB => 4)in Plop launch USB => 1)return to the biginning:

What I Mean is that my plpbt.bin just serve me to load USB2.0 drivers, it isn't the default bootloader, and it isn't installed as bootable nowhere.
I think it is possible to make a plpbt.bin that autolauch usb but I failed somewhere in the process :
I don't have to tell something to Plop to launch GRUB, Grub is the only loader that is bootable on my key.

[maanu]

I think it is possible to make a plpbt.bin that autolauch usb but I failed somewhere in the process :
I don't have to tell something to Plop to launch GRUB, Grub is the only loader that is bootable on my key.

well im afraid , it is not possible afaik . u ll have to manually launch plop from grub4dos menu , then when u select " usb " from plop's menu . it ll load the usb 2.0 drive for u . and will load ur usb (grub4dos loader in fact ) . and this time ur pe will load much faster .
just for the record again , DONT use any dos utility coz it wont write anything back to usb. and btw my ntfs4dos also did not work from dos after i loaded flash from plop /
it is ONLY good for booting pe i guess.

[was_jaclaz]

We are talking about two different things.

The one you succeeded with (your first post), well, you succeeded with.

The one you were talking about in post #8, for which I added the full quote is ANOTHER thing, look at the title of the section:

14. Using the Boot Manager as USB harddisk driver for DOS

bolded italic for your convenience.

It makes no sense loading PLoP "as USB harddisk driver for DOS" if you don't boot DOS after having loaded it, doesn't it?

jaclaz

[OCMan]

I'am ok with you, but I think the command "plpcfgbt int19h=on plpbt.bin " is not the one we have to load, this command is used to boott with using" int19h instead of booting the operating system."

I think that if we only run "plpcfgbt dbt=usb plpbt.bin" it would be ok to just autoboot usb.
as he said if itworks then you can
plpcfgbt int19h=on cnt=on cntval=1 dbt=usb plpbt.bin => seems that this command is an automating process
I will try that and report.
As I wrote that I just understand that dbt parameter sounds like "default boot" so maybe I have my answer.

[online]

@OCMan

Yep, with "plpcfgbt.exe" you can configure "plpbt.bin" just for your need.
http://www.plop.at/e...r.html#plpcfgbt
Simply following the related example in home-page you should achieve your goal.
plpcfgbt stm=hidden cnt=on cntval=1 dbt=usb plpbt.bin
Also you can configure your "menu.lst" in order to load "PLoP" after, say, 3 secs.
This way you can boot from your UFD and after 3 secs grub4dos will load (hidden) PLoP that will load its embedded USB 2.0 driver and then will (very quickly ) "re-display" the menu screen of grub4dos (just for 3 secs again).

color blue/green yellow/red white/magenta white/magenta

timeout 3

default 5

Where "5" is your PLoP title (6th entry, just as an example) in your "menu.lst".

Please, note that in the "Usage/Examples" section of the program's help function the suggested executable-name is wrong

Examples:

=========

 Print current values: plpbtcfgbt plpbt.bin

 Hidden boot with usb: plpbtcfgbt stm=hidden cnt=on cntval=1 dbt=usb plpbt.bin

Where "plpbtcfgbt" has to be "plpcfgbt", indeed.


@jaclaz

longer
. . .
implies that something has changed from a previous different status.

Yep, I agree... and thanks for your correction about "no(t) longer" error , but perhaps also the word "since" implies something that (maybe) "before" existed...

at least since grub 0.97/grub4dos 0.4.1

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/since




@maanu

USB 2.0 driver embedded in PLoP is useful when only USB 1.1 (AFAIK even with no USB support in BIOS) is available independently of what you load from your UFD... in terms of speed then the difference will be really huge loading anything.

[OCMan]

Thank you very much for the confirmation, I was so happy when it worked that I stoped working on my VistaPE Rescue and I started Playing with naughty PE ;-)

[was_jaclaz]

@jaclaz
Yep, I agree... and thanks for your correction about "no(t) longer" error , but perhaps also the word "since" implies something that (maybe) "before" existed...

Sure it does.

I'll translate this sentence for you, adding the unwritten, implied part and enhancing the part that has more relevance:

the "boot" command was never been needed in menu.lst, at least since grub 0.97/grub4dos 0.4.1

(a very old release, around 2005, among the first ones actually usable if not for tests)

[italian]
Il comando "boot" non è mai stato necessario all'interno del menu.lst, perlomeno a partire da grub 0.97/grub4dos 0.4.1 (una versione molto vecchia, circa 2005, tra le prime realmente usabile se non per esperimenti)
[/italian]

To better convey the general sense of the sentence , here is a parallel one :

Humans never had a tail, at least since they evolved from monkeys (or whatever ).

jaclaz

[maanu]

@ online

yeah well thats what i was saying , that it can be extremely useful for those who have usb 1.1 . BUT at dos stage ,when using any dos software i mean it is NOT useful to use plop driver . coz it wont let u write anything back to usb . as it is read only . BUT it is very very helpful for booting a pe /.

[online]

To better convey the general sense of the sentence , here is a parallel one

Ok, ok... climbing on mirrors is over!

at dos stage ,when using any dos software i mean it is NOT useful to use plop driver . coz it wont let u write anything back to usb . as it is read only

Are you sure about your statement?

After loading USB 2.0 embedded driver from PLoP I have just created a GHO image backup of the 1st partition of my UFD and just saved it on the 2nd partition of the same UFD with Symantec Ghost 11.0.1 running under MS-DOS 7.0 - WIN98SE and I warrant you that image backup is still there on my UFD.

[was_jaclaz]

After loading USB 2.0 embedded driver from PLoP I have just created a GHO image backup of the 1st partition of my UFD and just saved it on the 2nd partition of the same UFD with Symantec Ghost 11.0.1 running under MS-DOS 7.0 - WIN98SE and I warrant you that image backup is still there on my UFD.

Interesting.

Just out of curiosity, did GHOST 11.0.1 use PLoP or it's own internal USB drivers (I mean, Ghost 11 is one of those versions that have their own driver) or the "normal" BIOS USB support?

I mean was that experiment performed on a motherboard that has NO USB support whatever?

Or maybe GHOST somehow accesses the PhysicalDrive?



jaclaz

P.S.: JFYI, arrampicarsi sugli specchi" is not actually "climbing on mirrors", but rather "clutching at straws" or "grasp at straws":
http://www.proz.com/...li_specchi.html
http://www.wordrefer...en/arrampicarsi

but the leitmotiv was about "spaccare il capello in quattro" which translates into "split hairs over something":
http://www.wordrefer...m/iten/spaccare

[maanu]

now it is something very very strange . as it is mentioned on plop site that when plop's usb 2.0 driver loaded ur usb . it ll make ur usb write protect .

do u still have that dos kit i shared with u a while back ? try loading any tool from it when u load ur usb via plop's usb driver .

or may be i did not configure it like u did ,will u plz share it ? and also i guess u use g4d as loader ?

BUT if it does AS u'r saying , then it is a miracle.

[online]

now it is something very very strange . as it is mentioned on plop site that when plop's usb 2.0 driver loaded ur usb . it ll make ur usb write protect .

do u still have that dos kit i shared with u a while back ? try loading any tool from it when u load ur usb via plop's usb driver .

or may be i did not configure it like u did ,will u plz share it ? and also i guess u use g4d as loader ?

BUT if it does AS u'r saying , then it is a miracle.

Anything may be!

If you want to touch that issue, please try to perform (I mean: to really perform ) the following:

• Install a Filter Driver on your current Windows
• Delete all previous partitioning from your UFD
• Clean your UFD MBR (I use HDHacker to replace it with a NotInitialized one)
• Under MMC create 2 partitions (FAT32) on your UFD
• Install "grub4dos-0.4.4-2009-06-20" in your UFD MBR
• Add in your "menu.lst" the following entry/title
  title PLoP
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /boot/plpbt.bin
• At startup choose PLoP from menu screen and install (your UFD with) its embedded USB 2.0 driver
• Then launch your Symantec Ghost 11 (DOS version) from your menu screen (if you need I can suggest you how to create it)
• Create a GHO image backup of your (presumably "smaller") 1st partition
• Save that image backup on the 2nd partition of your UFD
• And then live that "miracle" you too!

Btw1: also, I can warrant you in advance about the true loading of USB 2.0 embedded driver from PLoP because I've already verified that.
In my BIOS there is an option under USB support named "FullSpeed" that allows to set the usb-controller in USB 1.1 mode (12Mbps) opposite to "HiSpeed" (USB 2.0 mode - 480Mbps).
Well, the difference in terms of speed is so huge that then it is impossible not to realize if the PLoP driver has been truly loaded.

Btw2: since it could be misleading, please could you kindly edit your latest "quoting" removing the first line (that's my reply to jaclaz)? Thanks.

[online]

Just out of curiosity, did GHOST 11.0.1 use PLoP or it's own internal USB drivers (I mean, Ghost 11 is one of those versions that have their own driver) or the "normal" BIOS USB support?

Just read.
I do not remember now (since I have more than one release), but I will report soon about that.
However, please note that I did the same thing (that's to save some file on my UFD) either with ERD Commander HD-like image disk and with XP Recovery Console, if it means something.

I mean was that experiment performed on a motherboard that has NO USB support whatever?

Even without to know your reply, I've already answered to maanu about that.

Or maybe GHOST somehow accesses the PhysicalDrive?

Which way to somehow know that?

P.S.: JFYI, arrampicarsi sugli specchi" is not actually "climbing on mirrors", but rather "clutching at straws" or "grasp at straws":
http://www.proz.com/...li_specchi.html
http://www.wordrefer...en/arrampicarsi

but the leitmotiv was about "spaccare il capello in quattro" which translates into "split hairs over something":
http://www.wordrefer...m/iten/spaccare

I really like so much when you teach me how to improve my (little) English-language knowledge (thank you)!


By the way, when I replied: "Ok, ok... climbing on mirrors is over!", I was referring to myself (since I had no more argumentations)!

But, about "splitting hairs over something" it has to be surely referred to you (since your first reply in this thread)!

[maanu]

@ online

ok i ll test what u have suggested .

btw how u recommend making a dos ghost version ,? i did as following,

a super floppy image of dos 7.1 ( 30 MB) , has various tools , config.sys is as follows,

DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF /NUMHANDLES=128

DEVICE=UMBPCI.SYS



REM [CONFIG]

DOS=HIGH,UMB

;BUFFERSHIGH=30,0

;FCBSHIGH=4,0

;FILESHIGH=30

;STACKSHIGH=9,256

;LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z

;SWITCHES=/F

;BREAK=OFF

;FCBS

;FILES=30

;BUFFERS=30

SHELL=COMMAND.COM /P /E:512

autoexec.bat

@ECHO OFF

	SET CONFIG=%CONFECT%

	SET CONFECT=

	SET DRIVE=A:

	IF "%COMSPEC%"=="C:\COMMAND.COM" SET DRIVE=C:

	SET PATH=%drive%;%drive%\BIOS

	LH CTMOUSE>NUL

	LH DOSKEY /I>NUL

	::LH PERUSE X16>NUL

	::LH DOSLFN /Z:CP936UNI.TBL>NUL

	IF "%CONFIG%"=="M3" SHSUCDX /D:?CDROM /D:?USBCD /D:?FWCD /D:?PCMCD

	



	cls

	cls

	echo.

	echo   o===========================================================o

	echo   :					 :

	echo   o===========================================================o

	echo.

	echo   Command	   Application

	echo   -------------------------------------------------------------

	Echo   Ghost		 Norton Ghost 11.5

	Echo.

	Echo   AT			Acronis echo server 9.7.8344 + Universal Restore

	Echo.

	Echo   AD			Acronis Disk Director Suite server 10 build 2169

	Echo.

	Echo   Disk		  Disk Genius v2

	Echo.

	Echo   PM			Paragon's AIO Disk Utilities server v 10

	Echo.

	Echo   PWD		   Active Password Recovery v3.0

	Echo.

	Echo   VC			Volkov Commander v4.99.08

	Echo.

	echo   o===========================================================o

	echo   :  CREATED BY Maanu (Muhammad Saqib Siddiq from Pakistan )  :

	echo   o===========================================================o

	ECHO.

thats what i sent u , if u remember . now whenever i try to load ghost or acronis ,after plop . acronis hangs when " scanning for partitions " and ghost hangs right after loading it .

may be this is because i do not create a ramdisk to load these items from while in dos?

[was_jaclaz]

@online

Still, since the Author of the actual app says that it is "read only":
http://www.plop.at/e...anager.html#drv

But remember, the usbdrive is only as "read only" device available.

I tend to believe him (he would know, don't you think? ) , and consequently I am keen to attribute your report to either:

• something within GHOST
• something within the BIOS of your machine

jaclaz

[MedEvil]

Have a little question about the exact behaviour of the plop USB driver.

The way i understand it, the boot loader loads the plop driver, then uses it to load the PE image into RAM, at which point the driver gets unloaded and command gets transfered to setupldr.

So when i run PE directly from the stick, without the use of a RAM loaded image, the plop driver is pretty much pointless, as it will only speedup the loading of setupldr. Right?