259 replies to this topic

[LeMOGO]

I can't clearly see what you are proposing. Please use numbering as on the map to lay out the branches.

Thank you.

[LeMOGO]

Added Partitioning / MBR / PBR related branches and details.

[sambul61]

I can't clearly see what you are proposing. Please use numbering as on the map to lay out the branches.

I'm still studying the applicability of proposed numbering system to the task, also depending on target audience (not clear on this one so far). Interesting, very seldom Wikipedia type articles (including those with diagrams and tables) offer a complex numbering system of their content. It of course depends on a combo of known practices & site rules & guidelines, and the author's personal preferences. Speaking also of the Map usability, is this app allow to add some keyboard shortcuts like Zoom In/Out?

[LeMOGO]

The numbering simply shows the position.
You do not even need to follow the map.
Something like this is enough.

A. I like myself

A.1 causes
A.1.1 because I'm handsome. If you don't think so, you are blind.
A.1.2 because I'm smart. If you don't think so, "you" are not very smart.

A.2 reference
A.2.1 see the picture on my wall
A.2.2 come look in the mirror in my bathroom. I'm on it when I look in it.

It's nothing fancy really, just a way to point to ideas by numbers. That's all.

To refer to items on the mindmap, just use the numbers on the last numbered parent, and tell us which of the branches you are referring to.

Hope this helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the keys, I can not define them. Please try ctrl+(+/-). You can also collapse/expand from the joints. There should be a zoom on the bottom right of the page.

Please let me know if you need anything else.

[sambul61]

There might be a reason, why such numbering systems aren't used on popular knowledge sharing sites targeting general public. But they are convenient for a developer.

The keyboard shortcuts don't work (in Opera), may be that site support can help? Frequent clicking to zoom in/out isn't convenient.

[LeMOGO]

The help says ctrl+(+/-), but it's running on java. Who knows...? I dunno, my friend. I will put in a request and find out whether there are known limitations, or other ways to do it.

On most of the sites you are referring to, the numbering is automatically generated from the headings (by the software). It can be changed to letters only, roman numerals, ..., and the depth to which you want the numbering to apply is also changeable. We're using it here because it makes it easier to refer to sections. We need a way to do that in our discussion. If you have a better suggestion, let's hear it. If it works better, we'll do that.

[Wonko the Sane]

As initially posted, such kind of numeration is normally used in the WBS methods.
WBS (Work Breakdown Structure) is an approach, mostly used by project managers and engineers, to break down the work into single items of the structure, organized by levels.
http://en.wikipedia....kdown_structure

A typical use of it is in GANNT charts:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gantt_chart
that are basically a representation of the work involved in a project with as much detail as you need/like (grouped in any number of levels and sub-levels) into a collapsible/expandable structure and with corresponding time needed and expected dates, resoures, etc..

Since the mindmap is actually and essentially a collapsible/expandable tree, it is only natural to use a similar numbering system, as it gives even textually evidence of the level (or if you prefer "amount of detail" of each "node"):
http://en.wikipedia....S_coding_scheme

But it is just an example of a multi-level structured numbering, if you look at a structured WORD document, you will see that it uses a very similar approach.


Wonko

[sambul61]

I'll try to learn more about project management and MS Word now. That's a serious challenge for a part time cleaner.

[LeMOGO]

sambul61, I can relate to the part time thing, because I am a partimer myself. I am part time cleaner, and a part time mechanic, and a part time plumber, and a partime construction worker, ...
I am part time at a lot of things.
But what I don't get, is the full time part. Judging from your responses on the forums, you do not sound like a part time computer user. Your statement made me think of professional magicians and what they do best: misdirection. They show you their right hands so you can see that they have nothing in it, while the one you should be looking at is their left one (actually, the sleeve on top of their left hand).

I'm sure if you can find your way around these forums, you can understand a simple process of breaking things into chunks and numbering the chunks
Hmmm!

I purposefully refrained from giving the Ms Word example because I did not want to look like I was pushing anything, but, since the genie is out of the bottle, look at the master documents, sub-documents, outlining, and table of contents features.
Youtube video here, and here. you'll be up and running in no time.
Have fun!

[Wonko the Sane]

Your statement made me think of professional magicians and what they do best: misdirection.

For NO apparent reason :






Wonko

[sambul61]

LeMOGO

Humor makes forum communications much more alive. I hope you share this estranged view. Being a *good* magician is a talent, I'd gladly have.

About the numbering system you offered, I don't feel its suitable for a forum type presentation. But as said before, we can only suggest and try to contribute, while the author is free to select any means to express his idea. Your general idea is very good IMHO, its probably 3-d time I said this.

Now, since you're relatively new here, keep in mind, some folks on such forums just like in real life try to put others head to head pushing their own agenda. Hope, you don't share "cheap bastards & forum enemies" concept, which sounds ridiculous to me. If you compare how these boys behave towards someone who can simply block them, or paid in the past & may pay in the future, you'll quickly learn they are even a lot cheaper they claim to be, and are as soft as used chewing gum.

May be I can finally try learning MS Word now. Sorry, I'm out.

[LeMOGO]

C'mon sambul61!
I don't think it's that hard. Seriously!
You are making it sound as if I am trying to make things difficult. I offered to change to whatever you have to offer that is better. I mean it. If you have something better to propose, let's hear it.

About the numbering system you offered, I don't feel its suitable for a forum type presentation.

The map is not on the forum. We need a way to refer to the branches without rewriting each branch that leads to the one we want to address. If you don't like the numbering, please suggest better method. So far, you need to realize that you have not. you keep complaining about something, but you are not offering a solution. I don't do magic, even part time. I'm afraid I can't help. Please state what can be done to help you.

So, are you a full time magician?

[sambul61]

You better tell, how do you like my new haircut? Nowadays making such hair style isn't cheap, you know...

Talking of magician stuff, you are not the first one to inquire about my credentials. I've nothing to hide. Just recently, when my hair style was subjected to "minor criticism", I fully disclosed them all. Can tell you for sure, working with kids will make you a part time magician in no time, like in that Kindergarten Cop.

Talking of numbers, I'm making progress with Word so far, following your links. To practice a bit, I wonder if your public version of the Map is still accessible for editing and up-to-date?

[LeMOGO]

You better tell, how do you like my new haircut? Nowadays making such hair style isn't cheap, you know...

I noticed!
I was wondering about it. Must have cost a fortune!

Talking of magician stuff, you are not the first one to inquire about my credentials. I've nothing to hide. Just recently, when my hair style was subjected to minor criticism, I fully disclosed them all. Can tell you for sure, working with kids will make you a part time magician in no time, like in that Kindergarten Cop.

O.K., I may have gotten it wrong. If you are a part time magician, let me try something else: are you a full time complainer?

Talking of numbers, I'm making progress with Word so far, following your links. To practice a bit, I wonder if your public version of the Map is still accessible for editing and up-to-date?

See? It wasn't that bad! I know I'm not the only one not to buy that part time stuff. You can do it (that is, if you make up your mind to do so).

To access the map, you will need an account. Once you have one, you can create your own at will, and practice all you want. If you want to edit the one I created, I have to add your name to the editors, which will require me to have a user name to give the permission to. So you will have to provide me with a user name. I suggested that people use the same user name as reboot.pro so we can track edits.

"Talking of numbers", it is actually an established standard that is automatically applied by the software. Playing with Word, you can see that it does the numbering for you, based on the structure of the document. You can certainly do it manually, but it's useless work. Defining the numbering scheme is sufficient IMHO. But then again, you're sambul61, the part time magician. So, you're either hiding something, or complaining, and I'm still trying to figure out what's in your left hand. The disclosure in the link above says you're a janitor. What part of a janitor's job is concerned with the contents of these forums? huh?
And to complain so much, you have to know something! hmmm?
It would just be useful if you forgot the janitor stuff (misdirection), and proposed solutions. If you have answers for the things you complain about, we would all benefit from them. But like some others, you complain, offer no practical solution (thus confuse noobs), probably go on elsewhere searching and finding some solutions so solve your own problems, but do not post material of practical help to the readers. It seems like you just love to be the critic. I'm sure you have a needle in your mind that you wake up in the morning with, and decide: "hmmm, let's see, who am I going to poke today? I have this needle I need to use." (I can't speak about other threads, but when you get to this one, it seems you look for wonko's posts).
then you poke here, and poke there, and... well, poke over on the other side too.
Hmmm! Interresting day!
At least, now you're busy with MS Word, but when you're done with that, what are you going to poke at?
On a serious note (joke aside), if you have a better organization to offer, I'll be more than glad to use it. I'm in this both to learn and help other (I'm not a janitor, but I know a little bit). Complaints with no solutions really don't help me, and I'm sure that they help no one else. But then again, being a good magician and all (though part time), you could prove me wrong by some magic trick. You see that hair?

[sambul61]

You need to calm down a bit, unless you're hysterical on purpose. I trust you on "user name" stuff. Just noted that the complex numbering scheme is hardly suitable for a forum presentation. It may be, when the Map is completed, it can get by without using any numbering scheme - this is my proposal at this time. At development stage it plays its role, but mostly for developers. This is not a complain, just an opinion. You better flame with ideas rather than personalities. Read this thread again, may be you'll find I suggested quite a bit, and in a lot friendlier manner. Think about own credentials first.

[LeMOGO]

I just realize I made some assumptions.
So, just to clarify, when we use a reference as C.3.3, we are referring to a branch of the mindmap. To get to that location, expand each part of the reference (by clicking on the "+" sign as suggested in "F. how to use this map").

C. is "Booting from media"
C.3. is "Booting via USB"
C.3.3. is "size constraints and limitations"

So, as of today's version, a reference to C.3.3. refers to "size constraints and limitations".
To get to it, follow each parent branch down

[LeMOGO]

when the Map is completed, it can get by without using any numbering scheme

We probably won't need it at that point. But then, if someone wants to point to a branch, how does he/she do that?

At development stage it plays its role, but mostly for developers.

I'm not a developer.
But the need is there: we need a way to refer to parts of the map without reproducing the whole path.
This has nothing to do with being a developer!

This is not a complain, just an opinion. You better flame with ideas rather than personalities.

OK, so you don't complain. So, let's say you're not a full time complainer. So, you're a full time idealist? I still can't figure it out. Please help me .

Read this thread again, may be you'll find I suggested quite a bit, and in a lot friendlier manner.

Look at F.3.3.4 "links from sambul61" and the map itself. The whole organization of the C. branch was your idea!
There's no doubt you contributed, and it proves I mean what I say when I say I will make changes as suggested. This is a community project. I don't want it any other way.

We are talking about something specific here:
Placing more pieces on the map. All I need is to know where to put them, but you seem to be "acting like you don't know", under the pretext that you are a janitor, which I don't buy. I don't think you are a janitor. That's a fact. The rest is just me having fun. My wife came to find out why I was laughing so loud. I laughed at wonko, then St Steve, today just happens to be our day .

It's really not as complicated as you are tormenting yourself with. Just kind of figure out where the pieces should go, and let me know any way you choose, as long as I can follow along, I'll try to place them where they go. If you feel the numbering system is too complicated, forget it and don't use it. Just make sure it flows and is easy to follow.
Remember that all these branches have to be filled in, and it takes time and work. So the more you provide, the better (and we have to be able to verify the accuracy - no offense to Wikipedia, but... - just make sure the info is solid, not just "opinion", because computers don't respect opinions).

[LeMOGO]

I forgot to mention that coloring the sections was sambul61's idea.
It makes it easier to follow branches.

[Wonko the Sane]

... because computers don't respect opinions).

...unless you yell at them VERY LOUD!

The other usual approach of showing them menacely large sledgehammers also works nicely .
http://www.msfn.org/...r-and-deepspar/

Hardware tends to be intimidated (and consequently tamed) quite easily , the real problem is software.....


Wonko

[sambul61]

Coloring the sections was sambul61's idea. It makes it easier to follow branches.

I'll have to report this award to our Janitor's Union, since it was actually their idea. They always color Care Maps to make it easier to figure out who left garbage behind. May be they'll shell some cash for out-of-pocket expenses, so that I can sponsor another guy's treatment in our Mayo Clinic? Xmmm...Its getting quite popular this season...

Are you still in a good mood to disperse user names to access your public map? Make sure to backup the original!

[LeMOGO]

You guys are cracking me up!

[LeMOGO]

Are you still in a good mood to disperse user names to access your public map? Make sure to backup the original!

This is a lot of work, I'll take the help (even from "janitors"). We're not even 1/10th there yet. Still a LOT to do.
I'll prepare the map since you seem to be serious about it. I'll also find a way to backup to void accidental deletion since there is no versionning, and method of proofing (unlike Word where you can approve changes - are you going to say that you did not know that too?).

[sambul61]

I do understand that the tool you selected is not quite suitable for random user contributions. Since you ask for help (hope sincerely), may be you can setup an open parallel project with default login and your map as a starting point. The members will make their amendments to that version and also leave a dated Note, listing changes they made, and a link to a file (uploaded to megaupload or similar server) depicting the Map status. Once a week you can manually synch your Reference Map with Common Map and/or linked Member Status Maps, integrating only those changes you like based on knowledge you gained by that time. This way member qualifications (including yours) won't slow down the project.

I've to say however, your above attitude, as well as ignorance of suggestions already posted in this thread (that you neither mentioned, no integrated) may discourage some less devoted members from contributing. Also, if you agreed to supervise janitors, it would make sense to obtain a Supervisor Certificate, or post here one you already have.

[LeMOGO]

I do understand that the tool you selected is not quite suitable for random user contributions. Since you ask for help (hope sincerely), may be you can setup an open parallel project with default login and your map as a starting point. The members will make their amendments to that version and also leave a dated Note, listing changes they made, and a link to a file (uploaded to megaupload or similar server) depicting the Map status. Once a week you can manually synch your Reference Map with Common Map and/or linked Member Status Maps, integrating only those changes you like based on knowledge you gained by that time. This way member qualifications (including yours) won't slow down the project.

That is *exactly* the plan. You see, when it comes down to computing, even magical janitors come to the same conclusions, because things are logical .
Additions can be made live, online, and note posted in this forum. We do not need to download/reload files. We can collaborate online.

I've to say however, your above attitude, as well as ignorance of suggestions already posted in this thread (that you neither mentioned, no integrated) may discourage some less devoted members from contributing.

WHOA!
I'm curious to find out what that would be!
FYI, there is only 24hrs in a day. I spend a number of them on this project (as crazy as it sounds to some people - but I think someone needs to do it). I have *not* overlooked anything. Time is the only constraint here. I fully intend to complete each branch. For the suggestions I could not handle immediately, I posted a link that will get me back to the post that has the suggestions, and posted the links that were offered on the map so that people who read can chose to go ahead of me.
What you are thinking is not even close to being like me. I don't know what makes you think so, but the very map will prove you wrong: all you have to do is look at it closely. I am adding things to it everyday. Right now, I am working on the "locations involved in the boot process", I created yet another table. That's where I am. It does not in any way mean that I am ignoring anything, but rather that at the moment, I am working on a particular thing.
FYI, I periodically reread the whole thread to make sure! Sorry! You need to try something else. This magic trick did not work. You will have to pull something else from the hat!

Also, if you agreed to supervise janitors, it would make sense to obtain a Supervisor Certificate, or post here one you already have.

You may be a decent magician, but you are not a janitor. Please pull something else out of your hat This one is not a good illusion. I am not misdirected.

[Wonko the Sane]

If I may , the general idea of "suggestion", as I see it:
http://www.thefreedi....com/suggestion

A psychological process by which an idea is induced in or adopted by another without argument, command, or coercion.

is that it can be adopted "without argument, command, or coercion" but that it can be also declined.

I presume that there are better English words to define "an offer you can't refuse"
http://www.phrases.o...ant-refuse.html



Wonko