91 replies to this topic

[techvslife]

at this point, I was just
1. trying to figure out why imagex.exe always gives an error when trying to load boot.wim ("driver has been blocked from loading"), or if that was actually normal behavior on x64 system.

2. confirming that the msdn x86 iso I had been using as a source did not have missing or different from the x86 eval iso from microsoft (someone asked me about dism.exe specifically since it appeared in an error message); however, the eval x86 iso as a source seems to give fewer or no problems with the projects here, so I use that now when building x86. (I use my x64 msdn iso when building x64.)

I don't use vmware--I just boot the isos burned to dvds.

[PaPeuser]

at this point, I was just
1. trying to figure out why imagex.exe always gives an error when trying to load boot.wim ("driver has been blocked from loading"), or if that was actually normal behavior on x64 system.

2. confirming that the msdn x86 iso I had been using as a source did not have missing or different from the x86 eval iso from microsoft (someone asked me about dism.exe specifically since it appeared in an error message); however, the eval x86 iso as a source seems to give fewer or no problems with the projects here, so I use that now when building x86. (I use my x64 msdn iso when building x64.)

I don't use vmware--I just boot the isos burned to dvds.

Well with the Win7PE_SE if you look in tools folder.. I suggest you redownload Win7PE_SE again to a new folder. And just set source, do not touch anything else, if you have a good source (x64 or x86) it will build with out error
This is not hard

In fact my source is a folder on C: that has a complete copy of a Win7 DVD

[techvslife]

yes thanks i am building with the msdn x64 and eval x86 no problems. the question now is only about imagex behavior (besides replying to one post to confirm the msdn x86 iso that fails has no missing dism.exe).

[PaPeuser]

yes thanks i am building with the msdn x64 and eval x86 no problems. the question now is only about imagex behavior (besides replying to one post to confirm the msdn x86 iso that fails has no missing dism.exe).

I have a version of Win7 RC, one of the first free downloads and that will not work either,, we call it Vodoo
I have no idea why

[techvslife]

Ok, pnp util works, and can access usb drives and internet.
But additional notes:

--pnp util should run automatically without user intervention.
--no internet browser included in the default package (should be included).
--logoff button doesn't work.
--hitting ctrl-alt-del brings up shell swapper, which includes an explorer for the hard drive. but i only ran across shell swapper accidentally as I did not see an icon or entry for it in start menu.

thanks.
also want to repeat for emphasis this pt from earlier post:
4. serious limitation: unlike real pe, can't decrypt bitlockered drives. it looks like some necessary module was not included. win7 uses system32\manage-bde.exe to do that, but when I run manage-bde.exe with any function (like -status) I get "the specified module cannot be found."

tech
After you boot to Win7PE use the PNP util to detect hardware. This will be found under computer management
Open device manager and see you may have to refresh
At this time your network card should be detected, then use PENetwork
I have included Opera and it works

[patsch]

--no internet browser included in the default package (should be included).

no, should not ... I do not need a browser and therefore I'm happy that it is not included ... for me there are other apps more suitable for my build. It is good that apps are modular, if you want a browser in a build, add that script

--logoff button doesn't work.

trying to search around a little bit gives you the hint that it is known und that therefore the script shutdownpe exists that realize this functionality

[techvslife]

thanks. no disagreement that apps should be modular, but the default or "recommended" set of apps, not the "minimum" build, should include a browser. that's like selling an os without a browser ....

as far as pe shutdown, ok, but not good practice to have a button that is dead. looks like a bug to end user.

[paraglider]

I also see no need for a browser in win7pe. I find I don't ever need to even load network support.

If you want a more featured version of win7pe look at win7rescuepe.

In XP MS provided gina which provided mechanisms to intercept the shutdown request in PE. Normal shutdown does not work in PE as it depends on user support which is not available in PE. Everything runs as system user; which is a benefit as most of the time it avoids permission issues. In Vista/Win7 MS removed the gina as it opened up the system to security issues.

Currently no one has worked out how to intercept the shutdown request from the shell. It would theoretically be possible using api hooking or patching of system dlls. However that is always a problem in 64 bit versions as system processes / dlls tend to be digitally signed and checked at run time.

[techvslife]

re: shutdown, the issue is the button that does nothing, not shutdown per se. (fwiw, shutdown is available from the ctrl-alt-delete shell swapper program anyway).

on browser, I am not saying it should be part of the "minimum" config, but it should be part of the "recommended" config profile, once pese2 has one. certainly should be part of the "complete" config profile.

[patsch]

re: shutdown, the issue is the button that does nothing

yes, as paraglider explained ...

on browser, I am not saying it should be part of the "minimum" config, but it should be part of the "recommended" config profile, once pese2 has one. certainly should be part of the "complete" config profile.

Imho it is not the intention of a project to fulfill all needs of a project user ... the goal is to provide a base functionality.
The apps provided by the author are some goodies. If an author finds an app usefull, perhaps it will be part of the project (after a period of testing), a project makes no claim to be complete ... all other apps are from user for user (with no garantuee to be up2date) ... there are several threads about apps working with the different projects. So if you need an app, use an existing one or write your own script.
For my personal project : I deselected all app-scripts that are shipped with the project. I only use my own app-scripts ...

Imho the downloadlevel should be replaced:
- base : only base system
- full : if app scripts are available

[techvslife]

yes, as paraglider explained ...

The issue is not that shutdown cannot be made to work in pe, which is what paraglider explained (though note that the shell swapper program is able to do it), but that the button for shutdown is still visible (design bug). Now maybe there is no way to get rid of the button's existence, but that's a different issue from lack of shutdown functionality.

Imho it is not the intention of a project to fulfill all needs of a project user ... the goal is to provide a base functionality.

ok, that makes sense. but if you did want to please the end user, it seems to me that those app scripts that are available (in the other projects) that work with your project should be included in the "full" configuration, and "recommended" would have the extra value of avoiding duplicates and the author's feeling of which is the most complete or best utility in an area or least buggy. I realize "recommended" in particular would be a lot of work, and I am against a lot of work, but I just note what I think would be ideal from the user's perspective.

[was_JFX]

--pnp util should run automatically without user intervention.

No this is often not needed, but would take a lot of time.

If you know your drivers simply create your own batch file like this for speed up hw detection

pnputil.exe -i -a X:\Windows\inf\netnvm64.inf

pnputil.exe -i -a X:\Windows\inf\rt2860.inf

If the logoff button is such a problem for you, try use reshacker for removal

For bitlocker try full copy mode in Copy Files script.

BTW: You shouldn't compare a basic PE with an full Windows, there maybe some feature missing

[patsch]

The issue is not that shutdown cannot be made to work in pe, which is what paraglider explained (though note that the shell swapper program is able to do it), but that the button for shutdown is still visible (design bug). Now maybe there is no way to get rid of the button's existence, but that's a different issue from lack of shutdown functionality.

I use the script from the author's thread (version 6) ... there you have the experimental option to remove the button (for explorer shell) but seems not to work for win7-projects. I remember that it was already mentioned somewhere (have to search for) ...

but if you did want to please the end user, it seems to me that those app scripts that are available (in the other projects) that work with your project should be included in the "full" configuration

but who should keep all up2date? There are some scripts that update themselves at buildtime. I was not able to implement this in all of my scripts so it is a lot of work to keep only my some apps up2date. And what about updates in base project? Who will test all scripts functionality if base project has major changes? In Win7PE SE you see the effort of 3 or 4 members (sorry if I forgot some) to test only some apps with all sources ... that is an awful work. There are now efforts to change all scripts so that they can be used in all projects but this will take a lot of time.

[techvslife]

No this is often not needed, but would take a lot of time.
If you know your drivers simply create your own batch file like this for speed up hw detection

pnputil.exe -i -a X:\Windows\inf\netnvm64.inf

pnputil.exe -i -a X:\Windows\inf\rt2860.inf

If the logoff button is such a problem for you, try use reshacker for removal.
For bitlocker try full copy mode in Copy Files script.

BTW: You shouldn't compare a basic PE with an full Windows, there maybe some feature missing

thanks for the code, note however that the nativeEx7 project includes automatic network card detection and does it quickly. It seems basic enough to me that the user shouldn't have to made to code specifically for that so in this case I prefer the nativeEx7 approach. (otoh, possibly i included without realizing it an extra script that did it for me there, i'll have to see, but it was probably in the recommended config.)

The non-functional button isn't a big problem, just a design bug that, if it could be easily removed, shouldn't be present in any build.

re bitlocker: Problem is I don't know what files to copy to get bitlocker support--i tried but didn't find which ones. Note that true pe 3.0 includes bitlocker support, so I'm not comparing pe to windows but pe to pe. It seems to me if one can't even access many critical windows drives and data without certain system files, those files should be bundled in a pe.

[techvslife]

that is an awful work. There are now efforts to change all scripts so that they can be used in all projects but this will take a lot of time.

yes, I didn't mean it would necessarily be worth the work, very few things are worth the work, only meant to comment on what would be ideal for the user. however, it seems that things are moving in a good direction from your comments.

[patsch]

only meant to comment on what would be ideal for the user

and that is very difficult ... who decides what is ideal?
I know that sounds philosophical but as you can read in our discussion our both opinions are many miles off

[techvslife]

it doesn't seem that difficult to me. user would prefer to have apps that don't work with a project yet to not be listed, user would prefer not to have to write a script to get network card detected, and user would prefer not to have buttons that don't do anything. none of that is a great philosophical problem. Also users who want no add-ons selected by project author can select basic, those who want to include add-ons selected by author can select recommended, those who want all addons that work can select full. this would please everyone as end users, but not the producers, the workers ...

Now the question of whether it is worth the work, and whether justice is good and whether a good man devotes himself to the good of others or something else, that has been a great philosophical problem.

and that is very difficult ... who decides what is ideal?
I know that sounds philosophical but as you can read in our discussion our both opinions are many miles off

[patsch]

user would prefer not to have to write a script to get network card detected

in a full win7 version you have to install drivers if your card is not detected ... so what ... modification is needed and that means that you have to do some work. Not all can be done for you.

[techvslife]

in a full win7 version you have to install drivers if your card is not detected ... so what ... modification is needed and that means that you have to do some work. Not all can be done for you.

All my cards are detected in nativeex7 without my having to do anything. not all can be done, but windows gets one used to having almost all be done for you. different for the linux people of course, who are used to hard labor.

Also to repeat my main concern with the win7pe projects: unlike the real microsoft pe 3, none of the projects currently have bitlocker support (to access vista or win7 encrypted drives) and I don't know how to correct that. Everything else is minor (for me) or workaroundable or already solved. thanks.

[MedEvil]

techvslife, i think you're traped in a misconception.
Our PE are NOT a Windows. You should have noticed that, as soon as nobody asked for your money, before allowing download.

A PE is, at least the way you get it here, a system pretty similar to Linux. As in, that the development is done by people working in their spare time and not getting payed for it.

Besides, since we all share here our scripts freely, you can start at any time, to create the perfect Win7PE project for others to enjoy.

[patsch]

Also to repeat my main concern with the win7pe projects: unlike the real microsoft pe 3, none of the projects currently have bitlocker support (to access vista or win7 encrypted drives) and I don't know how to correct that. Everything else is minor (for me) or workaroundable or already solved. thanks.

I think it was psc who wrote that you should change "file to copy" from standard to full ... have you done this? I can't remember that you wrote an answer to this ...
btw if you need that feature (this is the first time that I read of it as a needed part of a PE) then this is your great chance to give something back ... try to get it working

[techvslife]

I certainly agree with what you say basically (ok, except for the being trapped part). You absolutely should not work so hard for free--and I said I doubt much of it is worth the work for the producer, but only saying what would be ideal for the end user (not you as the worker). This is the same principle behind the shift from commandline to gui--not ideal for the producer but in most cases much easier for the end user (exception would be when end user has to script things himself, so ideal is to be able to have both, scripting as you want, and autosetup of basic things if so desired to extent practicable). linux on desktop is trying to be windows anyway.

as far as bitlocker, it is in the real PE 3. Since there is a truecrypt app script, I wonder whether this basic feature of pe3 can be added (ability to read contents of a disk seems basic to me for a pe), or at least how to write a script to do that. I just don't know enough about how the true pe 3.0 does bitlocker support. again, this does not violate principle of "pe is not windows."

(also since nativeEx7 pe sets up my network cards automatically I don't think it violates the "pe not windows" principle here to include that in pe. but again maybe that was a script I overlooked that did that. but this is minor.)

techvslife, i think you're traped in a misconception.
Our PE are NOT a Windows. You should have noticed that, as soon as nobody asked for your money, before allowing download.

A PE is, at least the way you get it here, a system pretty similar to Linux. As in, that the development is done by people working in their spare time and not getting payed for it.

Besides, since we all share here our scripts freely, you can start at any time, to create the perfect Win7PE project for others to enjoy.

[patsch]

just what I read about: bitlocker is not standard in PE3 ... you have to install scripting package before you can use it. Bitlocker is also only available in win7 ultimate and enterprise ... so if you only have win7 home premium as source (for win7pe projects here) you imho can get in licence trouble if you have bitlocker funtionality in the pe

[techvslife]

no, not correct. asfaik scripting package was required only in true pe 2.0. true pe3.0 does not depend on scripting package any more for bitlocker support.

Well, no license issue if script checks if source is enterprise or ultimate and copies only if that is the case. everyone has access to enterprise on 90 day basis since freely downloadable from ms site as trial. Also, this is pe, not windows! not building windows, only pe. (I think perhaps no license issue since bitlocker included in true pe 3.0 and windows recovery--isn't pe license somewhat different from windows license?)

just what I read about: bitlocker is not standard in PE3 ... you have to install scripting package before you can use it. Bitlocker is also only available in win7 ultimate and enterprise ... so if you only have win7 home premium as source (for win7pe projects here) you imho can get in licence trouble if you have bitlocker funtionality in the pe

[techvslife]

I think it was psc who wrote that you should change "file to copy" from standard to full ... have you done this? I can't remember that you wrote an answer to this ...
btw if you need that feature (this is the first time that I read of it as a needed part of a PE) then this is your great chance to give something back ... try to get it working

Yes I did this; didn't have time to report the results before. Here they are:
When using full copy, error messages change slightly:
for running manage-bde.exe the error changes to 0x8004100e "Invalid namespace."
for control panel, you do now get a tempting bitlocker screen, and can get to the unlock drive screen. But pressing any of the buttons there (unlock drive with usb key, or unlock drive by typing password key), does nothing.

May be this is the first time reported here, but lots of people use it out there and you will run into a bitlockered drive very quickly in enterprise environment--the law in the us requires it in some industries. win7 is still not out for long, but I think because of usb bitlocker support, this will spread.

I would like to give back, but as I said I just don't know which files it needs or how it works. I can pay back the wise and generous souls who run these projects with honor and praise (and also with my petty criticisms). perhaps with a donation of $$$ (ok, just $).