73 replies to this topic

[ispy]

Hi MedEvil ,

No worries, just brain-stormin, heres a nice bit of info to read:

http://radio.weblogs...2006/02/18.html

N-Joy!

Regards & Respect,

ispy

[was_jaclaz]

@ispy
don't take it as an offence , but batches can be written in some more elegant ways, the ones you posted are hardcoded to WINNT directory, which I guess a lot of people do not use, and to the C: drive that as well a number of people do not use, and have no error control of any kind.

In other words, as they are they are pretty much useless, and besides, since you need to boot another system (PE or RC) they are more properly an emergency recovery solution than anything connected to portability of software, heck what you are proposing is to f@çk the Registry installing whatever you want and then restore it back to it's previous state by running another OS!


jaclaz

[ispy]

Hi Jaclaz ,

don't take it as an offence ,

None taken! Your ideas & guidance are always appreciated!
Twas hoping some parts of it would be useful 4:

A cheapo version like the portableapps one could be done with a batch file or similar:
- saving the registry entries for the app on the host system, if it exists
- writing into the registry the data of the 'portable' app
- running app
- closing app
- saving registry entries for app back to stick / or not
- deleting registry entries of the portable app
- writing back the saved registry keys

People could amend the batch files to reflect the drive & install Dir's as input %Vars% with Set /p choice switch maybe but that would require alteration, point taken! Oh well never mind shall I delete that post to save space?

R&R,

ispy

[was_jaclaz]

People could amend the batch files to reflect the drive & install Dir's as input %Vars% with Set /p choice switch maybe but that would require alteration, point taken!

Still you seem to miss that the proposed batches will save (and then hopefully restore) the WHOLE, ENTIRE Registry, and that this won't work from a booted system, you need to boot ANOTHER os in order to restore Registry files via batch.

Though, as said, I find the whole idea simply UNPRACTICAL, there are better ways to do the above, typically using ERUNT:
http://www.larsheder...nline.de/erunt/
reboot will be necessary, but NOT the booting onto another operating system.

Please note that having ERUNT running as autostart is anyway ALWAYS HIGHLY, and I mean HIGHLY, recommended.

jaclaz

[MedEvil]

@ispy
Please also note that my proposed batch is a per application solution, not a general solution.
The creator of the 'portable' app in question, would need to know which registry entries to save/delete/restore.

To make it a more general solution, the batch would need to process the reg files of the application, to determine which keys are relevant.

[ispy]

Hi MedEvil ,

Perhaps I am perhaps not the right person to be looking at creating a portable program maker but what about this Gizmo?

http://avaxhome.ws/s...Shot_1_8_2.html

Tis portable, not sure if it would work from CMD batch but perhaps Autohotkey launcher/wrapper could fire it up to record 1st registry snapshot then after app install conduct 2nd registry snapshot apparently it also does folders.

If anyone wants the portable version can be downloaded at this link:

http://nascent-proje...1_en-us.paf.exe

One of the most important things missing from the Regshot tool, is it's inability to output it's traced changes into .reg files.

Paraglider then made a Regshot-mod which could output .txt logfiles using REGEDIT4 format.

Now a Regshot alike freeware tool named Regshot 2.0 unicode has emerged which resembles the old Regshot very much, while adding some nice extra capabilities...

It can output directly to REGEDIT4(ansi) or REGEDIT5(unicode) .reg files.
It can make both REDO.reg and UNDO.reg files.
It can output directly into INF files.
It can make both REDO.inf and UNDO.inf files.
It can auto-translate 'HKEY USERS\S-1-5-21[...]' into 'HKEY_CURRENT_USER'.
It includes a registry exclude list.
It includes an folder exclude list.
It features much more advanced configurability than the original Regshot.

The homepage and tool is in Russian, but the tool can be changed into english from a drop-down box..

http://czechcup.com/regshot/

I also found this page that lists what seem like add-ons to the original regshot:
http://bbs.betabbs.c...showtopic=61050


Never tried though, use at your own risk!

R&R,

ispy

[MedEvil]

RegShot does not need to made portable, it already is, as far as i know.
And for your purposes i would recommend rather using paragliders version, as it creates reg file compatible output.

[ispy]

Hi MedEvil ,

Also this could be useful in reg change detection for creation of portable software.

http://nirsoft.net/u...pplication.html
Note it has commandline options
Just 2 cents worth!

Hope this helps?

ispy

[ispy]

Hi all ,

Not only does the registry need monitoring but also....

GiPo@DirMonitor

File system changes monitoring utility for Windows NT/2000/XP. It allows to select the folder and to customize the monitoring settings for the specified folder (the event list to process and some other options). The program can also monitor changes in subfolders if necessary. This program can work in background and generates the HTML log of file system changes.

Get it from & tis freeware
http://www.gibinsoft.net/gipoutils/

Respect,

ispy

[ispy]

Hi tis me again ,

Just a quickie there is also this to fuel the fire!

Goto

http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5643

See post/or scroll down to post#7

See Update to JauntePE but within the Toolbox dir within the zip file download note

JPECMDline.EXE
JPERegger.EXE

Maybe these utils could be utilized?

Onward & upward!

Respect,

ispy

[pscEx]

Hi all ,

Not only does the registry need monitoring but also....

File system changes monitoring utility for Windows NT/2000/XP.

...

Congrats, Ispy! Your suggestions come into the near of describing trackWBInstall

Currently the target is a WB script, but why not a 'Portable Package'?

Peter

[was_jaclaz]

For the record:

REGSHOT UNICODE is Freeware up to version 2.01.66
http://translate.goo...t...it&ie=UTF-8

Current version is a DEMO or "Conditionally Free".

Paraglider's version on the other hand is freeware, as well as the nirsoft utility.

@Ispy,
again don't take it as an offence , but after hot water and the roundness of earth:
http://www.alaska.ne...arthsociety.htm

what will be your next discovery?


jaclaz

[MedEvil]

Hi all ,

Not only does the registry need monitoring but also....File system changes

ispy, please don't go through the trouble of reading what an application does, assuming is really more than enough!

RegShot monitors registry and folders!
For WB_track_install read above!

[ispy]

Hi Peter ,

That Peter at the end of the day is what this concept is all about, from within the confines of Boot-land the phoenix arises. You will have a program/routine that will kill two birds with one stone (English saying maybe!).

Not only, if you pull it off, will you have a very grateful community of boot-Land members & added to that the wider internet community but also the spin off benefits of hooking up with "portable software developers" could be attractive (within a non-commercial framework community individuals).

Lets be realistic, is does have the eyecandy of "Thinapp" this is not a commercial enterprise. It does not have to have all the bells & whistles that programs like Thinapp & similair products have. It does not even have to make "portable software" on large complicated software routines but it could be an ongoing evolutionary project that could grow at its own pace, not unlike WinBuilder. Without doubt it is easier for script writers to draw up scripts for "Portable Software" IMHO, I can see that indirectly that it will help the script writers & in turn benefit WinBuilder & thus the popularity of Boot-Land, as Shirin has stated the talents are here, what we need is the vision, the will, & co-operation.

@Jaclaz - These are not my discoveries, all this stuff is out there on the net, what we have is possibly the ingredients, to put together a portable software maker, if we can use utils (freeware) to aid the task, what is wrong with that.

If paragliders version is freeware & he is a member of Boot-Land then we have an additional local source of help. Question, would paraglider co-operate with Peter & vice-versa, would I help along with other tutorial writers to write tutorials, would Nuno agree & possibly do some attendance coding, would others bug test, these are questions I cannot answer as indeed I cannot answer as to whether the concept is feasible practical or whether the basic fundamental building blocks are presant or what people are already committed too?

Would I complain if you wrote a tutorial (& dare I say probably better than I ever could) No sir, I am trying to learn programming nothing as elaborate as ASM or C, will I be laughed at if my 1st attempts will be a failure, yes probably, but the intent is still there & I will continue? Will people say, "Stay in your own area do not cross over the fence you are a tutorial writer, surely not! Lets either do this thing or put it to bed, cuz maybe now is not the time & we are afterall up to page 4 of posts, a large % are mine, sorry!.

I am not your competition, I hope I am a friend & I may get many things wrong but maybe just maybe once in a blue moon we/I might uncover a gem most of the stuff/ideas statiscally will be rejected, but Shirin MedEvil, Peter & yourself & others have posted some good points, Peters idea seems to have a lot of potential!

I dunno maybe its me & I need a reality check but a "freeware portable software maker" would be kewl???

Respect & Regards,

ispy

[Shirin Zaban]

Hi ispy

Your topics are really very good.i have learned alot information here and also
i have got familier with some more applications to use in this topic.

Thank you very much

have a nice times

shirin zaban

[pscEx]

Now a serious 'Thanks' for your reply, Ispy!
The previous one has been a bit ironic and wanted to say 'Before searching in the World Wide Web, have a look in your home forum!'

You are right, that such a 'Portable Maker' is a great challenge for a developer.
And I'm thinking on that since I started with trackWBI)nstall some month ago.

But there are some priorities, e.g. WB 075 beta 6 or WB 076.
And unfortunattelly trackWBInstall is in the background, inspite I'm working on it sometimes.

The last great enhancement: I split the powerful reg script generation functionality off Reg2WBS and use it in trackWBInstall, too.
Currently I'm working on 'suppress side effects', e.g. MUI, .lnk entries etc.

I'm sure that in some time we'll have a great tool.

BTW: Thanks to fxscrpt who is working with me on this theme.

Peter

[MedEvil]

I dunno maybe its me & I need a reality check but a "freeware portable software maker" would be kewl???

Would it be kewl to have one or would it be kewl to make one?
If it's the later, you can count on geting help from everyone here, but at the moment i see you only distributing the workload to others. Doubt you will find many people being excited about wasting their sparetime for your toy.

And even though it was stated several times before. Portable apps are worst suitable for PE, than apps following the software rules for WindowsNT systems!!!

[ispy]

Hi Guys ,

Thanks for the frank replies, if I am reading between the lines correctly it could be a project we look at future tense maybe as priorities & commitments need to be addressed firstly & unrealistic expectations dispelled.

or would it be kewl to make one?

Yes it would be kewl to make 1 (not a toy!) but eventually have one with its origins from within Boot-land that was, or should I say will be, a credible alternative to "thinapp" etc in the future.

Added to this, Jaclaz's fine attention to detail, knowledge & skill, I think later on, it could be "dooable"

In 1 sense I am relieved cuz I would like to get into programming more & this postponement will allow more time to serve that end!

Mucho Regards,

ispy

[paraglider]

Note regshot does not monitor the registry or the file system. You take a snap shot of the registry / file system. Install your program and run it. Take another snapshot then compare the 2. It then produces a report showing the differences between the 2 snapshots. You can then feed the output from the report into my convregtoinf program and produce a pebuilder inf or winbuilder script file for the registry differences.

The original regshot also has configuration options in its ini file to exclude registry keys and directories. It snapshots all the registry except the excluded keys plus specified directories.

convregtoinf converts all keys from HKEY_CURRENT_USERS into HKEY_CURRENT_USER equivalent in the file it generates. You can drag and drop files to convert on to its file name text box.

[paraglider]

Also looks to me as the current free version of regshot 2 ( 2.1.0.17 ) is in Russian only. Later versions are not free.

[ispy]

Hi paraglider ,

Reading up on the previous posts I think it will be a combination of Peter & yourself who hold the keys (or pieces of the jigsaw) to the development of a "Portable software maker" but unfortunately Peter is committed to other things currently & for others I cannot speak for?

I have to appologise to you because I was not entirely convinced that it was you who developed regshot but it makes sense to use programs & individuals within Boot-land before venturing out onto the WWW. I think in future it might be best to consult Jaclaz 1st as he has a better idea re the resources within boot-land & on the WWW. As the say, "You live & learn" Sorry!

@ a future date, (or if you feel inclined to undertake some preliminary leg-work & start now) this project might take off but until then or directed otherwise things are on the back-burner!

Mucho Regards,

ispy

[paraglider]

I did not develop regshot just tweaked the original version mainly to optionally output in reg format.

I think the best approach for portable programs is the sandboxie idea - virtualize file and registry access i.e. redirect registry / file writes to the sandbox.

I don't believe monitoring register / file access and undoing them when the program exits works in anything but the simplest cases because it can mess up existing installed copies of the same programs.

[ispy]

Hi paraglider ,

I did not develop regshot just tweaked the original version mainly to optionally output in reg format.

Oop's another gaff on my part

I think the best approach for portable programs is the sandboxie idea - virtualize file and registry access i.e. redirect registry / file writes to the sandbox.

Sandboxie AFAI see is not freeware, but I am assuming you are referring to the underlying principle methodology?

I don't believe monitoring register / file access and undoing them when the program exits works in anything but the simplest cases because it can mess up existing installed copies of the same programs.

Do you mean the same type of programs or the same programs which are installed as full install (not portable)?
I think this is where MedEvil is making reference to the creation of a toy!
OK & sorry about this Jaclaz I have mooching again on the WWW. & found this article about Thinstall!
It refers to the inner mechanics of "Thinstall" before it became "Thinapp" some of the details may prove enlightening. The article is entitled "Virtual registry". At the bottom of the page you will find additional hyper links which in turn refer to further internal hyper links describing how "Thinstall" ticks or at least the basics. I have to confess a lot of the info is over my head but maybe bread & Butter to you guys/girls. Needless to say it may reveal some tips & tricks, you decide!
http://underpop.free...ualregistry.htm
Also here is some other semi relevant material pros & cons if you like (Well 1 con actually):

Using a virtual registry and file system and placing all files into a single
EXE (except for files that must change, like database files) does several
things that I can see value in.

1) It eliminates the need for admin privileges to run the application
(great for kiosks and flash drives).
2) There is no traditional install - again, eliminating the need for admin
level rights.
3) It keeps all of your app's DLLs and OCXs together with your app,
eliminating DLL Hell (or .Net Framework Version Hell).
4) It lowers support call numbers and costs because its really hard to
screw up running a no-install app.
5) It adds a level of security by wrapping and encrypting all needed files
into a single exe.
6) The end user is not required to install runtimes or .Net frameworks to
run your app (they're wrapped inside the app).

It does have drawbacks though... Like you can't use it to do kernel level
hooking or to run video drivers and other low level drivers.

All in all, it keeps your app installation more simple, insulates you from
DLL problems, doesn't require runtime or framework installs and can be run
from limited accounts - reducing the need for system admins to test, install
or oversee the application and increasing the odds that a company will use
it.

I think it's really cool. I'd love to make it available to all programmers.

Hell, it should be offered as an addin for .Net.

But reputedly where does the "virtual" way inter-relate with "WinBuilder", many report thinapp/stall do not work well in PE environments. Will WinBuilder need to adapt to co-operate with this up and coming Virtual scene or does the proposed "portable" program need to marry with WinBuilder, Developers questions, me thinks?

Anyway we are only dicussing right, tomorrow is another day metaphorically speaking!
N-JOY!

Regards & Best Wishes,


ispy

[ispy]

Hi all ,

Allo Allo Allo! Whats all this then???

I also found another application that allows you to install any application in a virtual space so you can use it without actually installing it. Any reads\writes to the system or profile folders are redirected to virtual folders. It's called Software Virtualization Solution and was written by a company called Altiris. Symantec recently bought them out.

Altiris® Software Virtualization Solution™ (SVS™) is a new way to use software. By placing applications and data into managed units called Virtual Software Packages™ (VSPs™), SVS allows you to instantly activate, deactivate, or reset applications, to completely avoid conflicts between applications, and to remove them cleanly without altering the base Windows installation. Say goodbye to "DLL Hell" and "Registry Rot". Getting apps and data into VSP's is simple with an included tool. See the offical product page for the full details.

Free for Personal Use
SVS is free for your personal use! The personal use download contains the SVS Agent and supporting tools to use the product locally on a Windows PC. The license never expires and you may use it on your personal PCs.
Anyone had any experience with it??? or

Check it out here:
http://juice.altiris...et-svs-here-now

Advisory note - some users say that this addon is beneficial to SVS "Trinket" You can get it here:
http://sourceforge.n...rojects/trinket

All the Best,

ispy

[Galapo]

Altiris method differs to Thinstall. Thinstall builds an EXE and basically the application runs direct from it, with very little unpacking to system.

Altiris unpacks to system (even though it is "overlayed"), so requires much more writable space on %SystemDrive% than what a Thinstalled app does.

Regards,
Galapo.