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Engineer "Windows Advanced Options Menu" to Boot as Default XP


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#1 ispy

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 01:12 PM

Can someone offer advice re the topic title above please  :D ,

General context info - My PC is a HP Elite SFF 8300 PC i7 Processor with 4Gb ram 2no sata HDDs previously dual booting XP & Q4OS (until I recently screwed up the Grub4dos boot loader but that is another story which Wonko the.... very kindly & patiently helped me with). Currently I have XPProSP3 as the default OS which loads from C: drive with the swap file on the second drive within a 10 gig partition.

To the advice, if anyone can shed any light please ?:

What I would like is to be able to have the "Windows Advanced Options Menu" as the default boot menu, now I realize some would say, "what on earth do you want to have that menu as the default menu when that menu is indicative of a fault with your PC & is not what you want to see every time you boot XP? "That Menu spells trouble"

Answer - "I like It & maybe I'm just weird", why? because it a good menu screen for all the repair options at your fingertips once XP Boots. 99% of the time you would select Boot windows as normal but all the Safe-mode options are there along with "Last known configuration" the only option that I can see is not in the menu is Clean-boot but Hey you cannot have your cake and eat it as they say.

I am also familiar with putting a lot of the Safe-mode options within the Boot.ini file but for me I have found this a little hit and miss and tends to get as far as mup.sys then boots to full XP. I suspect a driver issue but have not fully investigated as yet. Also I am familiar with Ms-Config option to force load Safe-mode options but that does not give me last known configuration option.

I also know about the [F8] function key option to load the "WAO-Menu"  but that is not automatic enough for my needs.

Then I have heard about the Ntldr hack that will disable the F8 key and Please, Please, Please do not try this at home unless you are experienced with editing he-xi-decimal values within relevant software, you can disable the F8 function key scrolling down to offset 00000770 then horizontally looking for  hex numbers 0F 85 09 and change them to 90 90 90 save the ntldr & hey presto the F8 key is disabled. Allegedly virus writers do this to stop you gaining access to the "WAO-Menu". However if this could be done to hack Ntldr, to default to "WAO-Menu" instead that would be great. I wouldn't know which hex numbers to change to bring about this result but if anyone does could they share their knowledge please?

The other option I have & thought about was to deliberately induce a fault to force the "WAO-Menu" to load but this seems a bit dirty/clunky way of doing it -  but maybe the only option. The fault would need to be minor in nature and easily rectifiable possibly if you wanted to revert back?

I have also considered the registry but again I believe the last known configuration option is changing every time you boot XP & really its not the Last known configuration option that I am after really after, its the complete menu.

One final note, and to at least contribute something I have found on my travels a small command-line progey called Last known good time 0.4 for XP which can be used as a bolt on for "Last Known good configuration" to enhance this option but I have not checked it out fully yet. Someone else may find it useful. It can be obtained from the link below:

http://vaultec.mbnet.fi/software.php

(6Kbs) scroll down to 3rd program down on website or soft-pedia here,
https://www.softpedi...ood-Time.shtml

......Maybe a good option to repair your PC when the SHTF.

If you want to see what menu I am ranting on about please see the .rtf attachment below for a screenie.

It may be a non-starter but anyway, does anyone know of a hack or another way that I have not thought of please to get this working?

Best Regards & thanks in advance for any advice given!

I ;)

Attached Files



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 05:59 PM

Hi, Ispy, long time, no see, happy to see you again :)

 

The 0F 85 09 trick should be this one:

https://mcpmag.com/a...-mode-boot.aspx

but AFAIK it disables either the polling for keys or specifically the F8 key.

 

If I were you I would try pre-loading the BIOS keyboard buffer with (several) F8's codes, grub4dos should be able to do that, but - if I remember correctly (good ol') XOSL also had a provision for it :unsure:.

Look around here:

http://reboot.pro/in...=22450&p=218464

 

But before that I would try this other thing (that from what I can understand was somehow mis-labeled):

https://www.tacktech...ay.cfm?ttid=361

 

more details here:

https://www.robvande....com/tweaks.php

 

though I think that this forces booting in Safe Mode (and not force display of safe mode menu options).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#3 ispy

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 07:25 PM

Hi Wonko :D,

 

Yes Sir, it is great to here from you also too, my apologies my life has been very dis-jointed stop/start lately trying to spin too many plates at one go, the consequence being a stuttering type L-L-L-life-lifestyle, it's not recommended. (I by the way I am not trying to poke fun at people that stutter by the way I am just trying to describe what life has been like, you have to be so careful in this PC world these days)

 

Anyway many thanks for the response to my posting it is sincerely appreciated, the 0F 85 09 trick is the nearest hack I could find relating to the [F8] key & was just wondering if there was another hack that would trick XP into displaying the WAO-Menu or the benefit of any readers looking at this post, shorthand for  "Windows Advanced Options Menu" it just seemed plausible in relation to the NTLdr but I think no-one has wanted to do this so probably on reflection not feasible?

 

I did not consider the send-keys option I had not considered something like grub4dos as a driver to stuff instructions into the function keys I will read and inwardly absorb that would in theory open the menu. I have never used XOSL which do you think would be the easiest option grub or XOSL?

 

Wonko - though I think that this forces booting in Safe Mode (and not force display of safe mode menu options).

 

yes I think you are right in respect of the latter options.

 

What do you think about creating a deliberate fault to trick XP into loading this menu as an option something that is basic in nature and easily reversible I would need to experiment?

 

Wonko much oblighed

 

I :)



#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 09:47 PM

Another thingy that may be useful though Not what you asked for :
https://www.d7xtech....tware/bootsafe/

Xosl even IF it works is rather complex to install, it needs a dedicated partition and - objectively - it is a bit dated, and of course I am rather partial to grub4dos, but I believe this latter is more suitable and flexible.
:duff:
Wonko

#5 ispy

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Posted 05 December 2021 - 04:52 PM

Hi Wonko :) ,

Many thanks for the boot-safe link a really good alternative option once loaded into windows, it is good to refer to these things for casual who may be passing by.

It seems specifically speaking the "Windows Advanced Options Menu" seems overly complex to achieve. You have to program Grub4dos to be primed with the relevant instructions to simulate the F8 key being pressed, following the POST loading process ending, then in turn would need to simulate the key-press down and key-press up, possibly repeatedly to load the "Windows Advanced Options Menu" (Wow what a mouthful) which I think you refer to in respect of grub4dos in one of your first couple of links:

http://reboot.pro/in...e=2#entry218464

Here I think you are getting into the realms of programming & event timing. Having time to sleep on it maybe it would be better to find an alternative route & try to simulate as many of the features in the WAO-Menu as possible via the Boot.ini file or something similar possibly  you promote grub4dos.

The menu items being:

Safe mode
Safe mode with networking
Safe mode with command prompt

Last known Configuration
Start windows normally etc

with or without boot logging
Clean boot option?

Regards & best wishes

I



#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 December 2021 - 09:45 AM

Well, there is nothing to program, if it works it is just a matter of adding one or more lines to the menu.lst entry, i.e. from

title Chainload NTLDR

find --set-root /ntldr

chainloader /ntldr

 

to:

title Chainload NTLDR+F8

find --set-root /ntldr

/bios int=0x16 eax=0x0500 ecx=0xnnnn

/bios int=0x16 eax=0x0500 ecx=0xnnnn 

/bios int=0x16 eax=0x0500 ecx=0xnnnn 

chainloader /ntldr

 

The difficulties are just those of checking how your BIOS maps F8 (i.e. find the 0xnnnn) above (some notebooks as an example, have "queer" mappings to function keys) and whether a single key is enough to be stuffed in the keyboard buffer or if you need (as in the example) three of them (or possibly many more).

 

In normal operations, getting the F8 to "take" is not easy-peasy, so there may be issues with the automation as well.

 

The "other" approach, i.e. intentionally causing the system to "sense" that booting to the safe mode menu is needed sounds a more reliable approach, but there are two issues:

1) it is needed to find out what the "error" (or setting) causes this to happen (as an example to trigger check disk one can set a NTFS volume as "dirty" if I recall correctly)

2) it is to be seen if this "error" (or setting) can be replicated artificially by grub4dos in the pre-NTLDR-boot phase

 

That is if you want the actual menu.

If on the other hand you want to boot to one of its entries, they should be all achievable by adding entries to the normal BOOT.INI, adding to it a line for each entry in the "Safe Mode Menu":

http://www.pantz.org...upswitches.html

 

This can be done "permanently" or - if needed - using this or that trick in grub4dos to compose the BOOT.INI "on the fly" or using a second boot.ini, like boo2,ini and a second NTLDR hex-edited to look for it. 

 

Maybe "unsupporteddebug" :w00t: could be useful (get into it and then press F8) to see which exact settings the "Safe Mode" menu has:

https://www.geoffcha...porteddebug.htm

or maybe not.

 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#7 ispy

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Posted 06 December 2021 - 10:29 PM

I think as with all things there are no guarantees this side of heaven apart from death and taxes, sometimes it's a matter of rolling the dice, or in poker being a percentage player. I was about to say if we speak nicely to Uncle Wonko he would provide a method through grub4Dos but the horse has left the stable & is trotting up the leafy lane, many thanks for the reply.

I have been researching this further through the Boot.ini file to try to replicate as far as possible the WAO-Menu, in that way looking through the rose tinted spectacles you would get two overall options in going through the "WAO-Menu" one the legit [F8] method the second being the replicant Boot.ini way with maybe one or two other options thrown in like Clean Boot & recovery console. Other foresighted individuals maybe able to provide additional menu options possibly?

 

The creating a fault deliberately to induce WAO-Menu maybe a long shot also because if there is a problem in the first place with XP, generally speaking you would be required to depress the [F8} anyway to access the menu, it wouldn't necessarily default to it automatically?

I started with the clean boot option ran a progey called "What changed" (Files & Registry) did a snapshot just prior to loading MsConfig then went to general Tab choose selective startup. Unchecked the process System.ini file and the same for win.ini and then loaded startup items items and made sure these were checked, then clicked services tab & check & hide All Microsoft Services check-boxes. Select disable all & clicked OK. I was prompted to restart PC. However at this point I elected to do a second snapshot of "what changed" & took a gander at the owrking boot.ini to see if any additional had been added, there was none! What Changed went through the whole process again and found 17 registry keys had changed and I discovered that these were specific in many cases to my PC & the way it was setup. What I am trying to explain in a roundabout way is the best way to undertake a clean-boot is through MsConfig and not through an entry in the boot.ini as there are just too many variables. So for doing a clean Boot you can follow the above guide minus the "What Changed" input but NOTE once the PC reboots you will to revert the changes back to normal via the MsConfig by selecting Normal statup mode on the general tab and "Apply" & click OK The PC will reboot again to revert back to normality. I have been advised that Clean-boot is good for finding naughty driver issues etc. anyway just thought I would explain things a little.

Now we come to the Recovery Console (assuming Windows XP is installed on C: & you have the recovery console installed also)

 C:CMDCONSBOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

Line can be used within the boot.ini or not as the case maybe?

So the menu could look something like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP Pro Normal" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin /numproc=2
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Safe Mode Minimal" /safeboot:minimal /sos /bootlog /noguiboot
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Safe Mode Networking" /safeboot:network /sos /bootlog /noguiboot
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Safe Mode CMD Prompt" /safeboot:minimal(alternateshell) /sos /bootlog /noguiboot
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP Pro Debug" /debug /sos /basevideo /noguiboot /bootlog
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Last Known Good Configuration" /LASTKNOWNGOOD
C:\CMDCONSBOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)="Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to exit & Reboot"

 

[In the above proposal, Not sure if there should be a backslash inserted between (1)WINDOWS like (1)\WINDOWS ]?

EDIT: For anyone passing by who notices red Back slash additions to the menu options above these are corrections that have been pointed out by Wonko in the next post below. They should be there highlighted in red to draw attention to them

 

Start Windows normally is already provided above 1st line
Reboot - Maybe write a blank line with an instruction e.g press Ctrl+Alt+Del to exit menu with No switches sumfin like above but have not tested yet I suspect it might just hang, Dunno

Anyway thanks for the additional links informative as ever things to ponder and deliberate over.

Best Regards,

I ;)



#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 12:18 PM

[In the above proposal, Not sure if there should be a backslash inserted between (1)WINDOWS like (1)\WINDOWS ]?
 

Yes, the backslash is needed, they are "arcpaths", see:

https://jeffpar.gith...kb/102/Q102873/

 

You also need a backslash in C:\CMDCONSBOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

 

You might want to try this (good ol' and of course considered worthless, nearly unfindable) GUI Boot.ini editor here:

https://web.archive....I=2&SI=2&OID=14

and compare results (as opposed to manually editing in Notepad)

 

:duff:

Wonko



#9 ispy

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 08:52 PM

:thumbup:  In reference to post #8 indeed very useful I also took the liberty of looking through the rest of the Website DX21 the software is Gud Ole progeys and indeed to me very useful, Much obliged. The link to ARC-paths is also is very useful to as I am not very proficient at working with this stuff.

Very good links, well at least to me they are  :clapping:  .

I have also noted that you can add other stuff (as long as you follow the Arc-paths rules) supposedly up to 1 page (not sure what happens after you fill the page screen as there seems to be no scrolling provision? So I will have to choose wisely for the menu. I have seen elsewhere other people have loaded other OS's like

C:\bolin="CentOS"

C:\="WIN 98"

C:\bodos="DOS622" /win95dos etc

Other questions indirectly related to "Windows Advanced Options Menu" in respect of "Recovery Console Am I right in thinking that you are the architect behind the recovery console CATCH22 from old Bootland website I think in respect of setting 4No set variables that would remove restrictions in respect of the crippled RC. Something about you could setup "RC" to run by adding 2no folders with a mini registry & using a batch file called SETALON (if memory Serves me right). I managed via waybackmachine to open the webpage but the Setalon.zip download file was a dead link. I am only raising this as I am interested in the "RC" not only as an installed option but also as a freestanding option.

The other consideration that I am currently also looking at is and old JSI 6575 webpage that permits the loading of generic sata drivers into the recovery console  via Txtsetup.sif appropriately called - 6575 » How can I add 3rd party mass storage drivers to my installed Recovery Console so I don't have to press F6 and load them? 15-Apr-03. I have downloaded the mass storage drivers that you can also use with nlite to install within a full XP Install CD.

It remains a good question what other useful items you can load using this arc-path txt file for repairs etc?

 

Much Obliged Wonko

 

I



#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:26 AM

Basically the NTLDR can load only two kind of items:

1) a Windows (NT/2K/XP) install through an arcpath to the install directory

2) chainload a bootsector (or a MBR-like) code in a file (cmdcons is a "special" example of this, the usual bootsect.dat is a copy of the bootsector), and this is the way grub4dos is loaded via something like C:\grldr="grub4dos". 

 

Yes, the "catch22" (actually nomorecatch22) was an approach invented at the time to make the recovery console slightly more useful, it originated on 911CD, through the usual collective brainstorming:

https://web.archive....pic=20983&st=25

 

of course the file there is MIA, but it is (was) later included in wimb's make-img.exe/U_XP_SET:

http://reboot.pro/in...ge=4#entry71377

http://reboot.pro/in...ic=5306&p=71375

https://web.archive.....net/downloads/

see if you can find the file(s) there, otherwise I'll have to look into old backups and it may take time.

Anyway I am attaching the contents (taken from one of wimb's packages)

 

As a recovery environment a second minimal install is obviously much better, Dietmar's 7MB (not really, let's make it realistically 30-40 MB one) is very good for this, and misty made its building painless or almost painless, and wimb has another  (if I recall a bit larger in size) good approach:

 

http://reboot.pro/topic/16765-minixp/

http://mistyprojects...niXP/index.html

https://github.com/w...dits_IMG_XP.txt

 

Finding an IMG_XP might not be that easy, but it is seemingly included (or however part of) the UEFI MULTI:
http://reboot.pro/in...c=9830&p=200652

 

If you cannot find what you need (if you need it), I should have copies of some older versions of IMG_XP

 

 

:duff:

Wonko

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#11 ispy

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 02:55 PM

:) Many thanks for the links, am I right in thinking these options are not recovery console but a juiced-up enhanced version of recovery-console and would you be able to load something like this from XP's Boot.ini or indirectly from say, Grub4dos if involving external bootloading capabilities?

I have managed to grab U_XP_SET.exe from your 3rd link (wayback link) along with U_XP_SET.script which I am guessing is for Winbuilder script, other goodies I grabbed were IMG_XP.exe & MBR_Backup.exe. Retorical question - It is a shame to see these very useful utils being resigned to the digital graveyard, I thought Rebootpro had a project forge or download section that the likes of these could be stored for others to download before they disapear?

I have also got a copy of the MiniXP presumably the juiced up Recovery-console or the progey to make it so?

And I downloaded the Catch22.zip file that you kindly provided also. Was this Sata aware or did this pre-date sata for XP if installing independently?

However regardless of the all the questions I would just like to express my thanks and gratitude for your kind responses and patience. You are one of the few individuals that irrespective of others aptitude and skill always take the time to creatively deliver & help if you can, Kudos to you, Many Many thanks.

With one eye on the depleting pool gene of XP users in the respect that XP is slowly becoming abandon-ware, I do see individuals who are attempting to take XP forward to make it compatible with the times. Various projects like back-porting sata drivers pulled from Win8.1 USB3 native drivers for XP, Making newer programs work in XP etc. The recovery console is good for CLI users, and it's advantage is that it is smaller in size, compared to other shall we say PE variants. +'s & -'s shall we say...

Here's my concept paraphrased, extract a working independent file-set and settings etc of Windows XP Safe-Mode, the ideal would be the Safe-mode with networking but I suppose the slightly easier option would be bare safemode minimal then add packages to provide the Bells & Whistles like networking etc. Two ways, one to extract the XP fileset & reg to another partition but would need say Coa32 to redirect internal paths. Or to make it more versatile would be the TxtSetup.sif (along with dosnet etc files) option that would load from the XP-CD. This being useful if say if a virus knocks out the main safemode inbuilt within XP.

You could use a parallel install but that might screw up you documents and settings etc, use another partition un-hidden, or hide one partition so in the case of infected main Full-XP wouldn't see safeModeXP but un-hide it to initiate repairs say within a backup partition etc.

Ways I have looked at this is to setup full vanilla XP to load with safemode minimal and safemode networking compare the differences in the windows\Ntblog.txt logs (That are booted into via Safe-mode) to see what loads at boot-time & there is a very useful util called Process explorer from Systernals I think that does boot-logging (Albeit produces massive file logs for a more in depth inspection, can be reduced with a filter on though) of what gets loaded through the boot process. The boot.ini file would need to ensure that safe-mode is the default option & what would be needed from the custom registry is another question. I am realistically 15 years too late Hey Ho!

Another question is how big would the install be but you would at least have a gui front end.

In respect of XP-dying I have looked at React-OS but is taking forever for it to get anywhere need XP, shame there are not more developers to bring it forward maybe my expectations will be realized in another 17 yrs.

With Grateful Thanks,

Going slightly  :offtopic: sorry :smart:



#12 wimb

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 03:23 PM

UEFI_MULTI-63 supports to boot with XP Recovery Console and contains makebt\CATCH22 folder

 

It is the best Legacy of the XP and IMG_XP period and even supports to boot with Floppy disk img files and with BartPE.

 

Also there is VHD_XP_Setup available for booting XP in VHD using WinVBlock driver

 

USB_FORMAT-63 is the latest software to make Bootable USB that can be modified by UEFI_MULTI-63

 

for Adding other Boot Image Files like VHD, ISO and WIM files

 

In fact the whole Legacy of IMG_XP is still present,

 

but in Programs with different names that besides XP also support all Windows OS since XP ....



#13 ispy

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 04:13 PM

Hi wimb & welcome to the discussion, thanks for the clarification, you are undoubtedly correct, I stand corrected, I am not trying to take a side swipe at anyone really, its just that its not apparently obvious where & what is on offer from an outsider looking in unless you are a frequent user of rebootpro or you have navigated through the wood & trees to find what you are looking for, just my subjective view point. Anyway maybe its just me & my lazy attitude at times, no offense intended. I think what I am trying to say is preservation is after all important. There is nuthin more frustrating to look for some util only to find, times have moved on & that option is a mere shadow or the link is dead. Thank goodness for Way-back-machine I say

Big picture - I am trying to put together a collection of menu driven options (albeit Ole XP now being a niche market) that myself and other users may find useful. It kinda started with trying to directly access the F8 option XP's "Windows Advanced Options Menu" but has kinda morphed into other areas indirectly related, my fault!

Anyway regardless, I appreciate your contribution

I will try to stay focused going forward, apologies!  

I



#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 04:31 PM

I think (but I may well be wrong) that you need a copy of the sata driver renamed as NTBOOTDD.SYS for having SATA support on the recovery console, but YMMV depending on the controller and driver (this was surely true for SCSI drivers).

 

Yes, the other suggested projects are essentially "minimal" (with several different levels of "minimal" definition) XP (second/third/etc.) installs, that can also be using this or that trick/approach to be made self-contained in a Raw or VHD image (which is very handy).

 

Personally I find my own (extremely difficult/complex to replicate, as it was essentially a test/POC) level of minimal or the Misty's one which is only slightly more featured BUT automated/easy reproducible "enough", but Wimb's approach (that creates larger images/installs with more features) has it merits, even if it is bordering with heavily nlited XP, it is all a matter of tastes/preferences/amoount of resources.

A typical XP install is around 1.5 GB, it can be nlited to 300-400 MB easily, with some additional work down to 200-300 MB, Wimb's latest - if I recall correctly - was around 180-280 MB :unsure:, mine and Misty builds were in the 50 MB, max 100 MB "limit" (of course with less features/capabilities), you'll have to go through the thread that started it all for more info/history:

http://reboot.pro/in...?showtopic=3717

if you want to skip directly to some example of my grumpiness, it is on page #9:

http://reboot.pro/in...pic=3717&page=9

(before we go astray with (German) hammers roaming free)

 

Everyone has this (or that) approach to this kind of stuff everything by Wimb (as he himself just explained) tend to be contained in a later versions, sometimes with a different name, that is slowly growing to include everything (and the contrary of it, and the kitchen sink), so the stuff is not really lost, it is only more difficult to find and older instructions/tutorials may become out of date/need to be adapted, understandably the accent is on the new/most recently added features so that using an "old" one for the first time might be a bit more complex.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#15 ispy

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 07:48 PM

:lightbulb: AHhh Light-bulb moment - So what I have inadvertently stumbled into is, for the most part friendly rivalry, who's got the biggest or smallest thingy (no sexual innuendo intended)?

So what happens when someone boldly goes into those grey areas or overlapping regional territories, lets call it the military buffer zone, is a passport needed, what border control measures are in place. Then there is whether the projects are PE's or not to PEeee, that is the question, clear boundaries and distinctions are needed, they say good boundaries make 4 good neighbours. So what camp do the "We care NOT crew reside, stumbling around with the bull in a china shop attitude types, you know the egotistical extrovert arrogant types"  

So where would the SafeModeXP brigade fit in, somewhat large & bloaty, not PE related? Would it be treated with rejection & ridicule or would they form alliances to gain more corporate power ultimately descending into the little weenie's and large swinging you know what groups?

I think the moral of this story is keep "ya noggin below the parapet" & wear a robust head covering. Tis always better to celebrate diversity, it takes all kinds of nuts to bake a fruit-cake :crazy: .

Best Regards

I



#16 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 08:57 AM

Well, no.

 

You are not boldly :w00t: going anywhere.

 

You are accidentally stepping into a mine field, should you - by bad chance - blow up, you won't be celebrated as a hero, you will be remembered as "that poor guy that was jaywallking and entered the minefield by mistake".

 

It is different.

 

"Safemode XP" is the "same" install, minus (most) drivers.

 

Alternative installs are alternative installs (please read as other OS instances), be them full, midi, mini XP's or Recovery Console (or any other OS).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#17 ispy

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 10:51 PM

So I'm ring-fenced then, have to mind my step then, best foot forward, Click Oop's :blowup:

 

Wonko - I think (but I may well be wrong) that you need a copy of the sata driver renamed as NTBOOTDD.SYS for having SATA support on the recovery console, but YMMV depending on the controller and driver (this was surely true for SCSI drivers).

 

Question - Is this a mere vague notion or do you have a web-link or something to read more about this? because surely this would stuff up the generic sata driver's option?

 

In respect of mini, midi or bloaty projects each has its merits and drawbacks or shortcomings, incidentally what is your take on ReactOS I like hearing others points of view. & what about this -

 

I think they call it slimwinbat, batch files are used basically to castrate XP. You need a clean RTM install but could this persons files be investigated and tailored to meet your expectations. I believe you are an expert when it comes to batch-files, just putin it out there, no pressure implied?

 

Ahh - That was the other question I wanted to ask you (if you don't mind) when you hinted that within the boot.ini the line which loads the Recovery-console is a special case, how special do you mean, very very special as in exclusive to RC or can other items be loaded in this way or in a similar way?

 

Maybe it's a bit premature but merry Christmas :newyear:



#18 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 10:19 AM

I don't know (about ReactOS), I believe it is sort of a miracle to have something like that, still it has very little (if any) practical uses, besides being a nice environment and allowing nice tests and experiments.

I don't know (about NTBOOTDD.SYS) the rationale behind it is that the moment the NTLDR switches to protected mode it may lose connection to the boot disk, and the file NTBOOTDD:SYS (disk driver) may "keep" it, as said this was surely true for SCSI disks, whether this applies to SATA as well it may or it may not be true, I have no first hand experience on this, and there are conflicting reports about the matter, I would say that in most cases this is not needed, basically you try without it, and if the *whatever* boots fine, leave it alone.

About boot.ini entries, re-read this:

Basically the NTLDR can load only two kind of items:

1) a Windows (NT/2K/XP) install through an arcpath to the install directory

2) chainload a bootsector (or a MBR-like) code in a file (cmdcons is a "special" example of this, the usual bootsect.dat is a copy of the bootsector), and this is the way grub4dos is loaded via something like C:\grldr="grub4dos".


I will try to clarify (maybe):
when an entry of type #1 above is used the NTLDR behaves as a OS loader and it proceeds to boot a Windows NT based system.
when an entry of type #2 above is used the NTLDR behaves as a boot manager and simply chainloads (or passes control to) the target file, that is either a bootsector (partition or volume boot record i.e. PBR or VBR) or a master boot record (MBR), anyway some assembly code.

The "canonical" use of type #2 is/was for dual booting Windows NT with DOS (and it usually chainloads bootsect.dos, nomen est omen).
The same mechanism is used for recovery console, the usual \cmdcons\bootsect.dat is a copy of the volume bootsector.

And the same mechanism can also be used to chainload grldr, which first sector is actually some MBR/PBR-like code.

:duff:
Wonko



#19 ispy

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 10:40 AM

yes I will leave NTBOOTDD.SYS thingy alone sounds a bit hit and miss. What about the slimwinbat question and the question relating to the special case within the boot.ini for RC and info on them please?

 

Many thanks!

 

I



#20 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 10:59 AM

yes I will leave NTBOOTDD.SYS thingy alone sounds a bit hit and miss. What about the slimwinbat question and the question relating to the special case within the boot.ini for RC and info on them please?

 

Many thanks!

 

I

Nothing about simwinbat.

All I could say about the mechanism of booting the RC I think I said in my previous posts, what else do you want to know, maybe I answered to a different question?

It is a special case because it uses the NTLDR as boot manager (like when dual booting with DOS) and not as boot loader (as in "normal" and "safe mode" XP).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#21 ispy

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 11:20 AM

Many thanks Wonko,

 

I just thought you might have been able to use some of the information within Slimwinbat to compliment the project that you have been working on however you are the best judge of that question, maybe, maybe not?

 

To the other answers you have posted I see, sometimes I can be a bit pedantic, especially when I am on shaky unsure ground, It's just my probing nature, apologies extended.

 

It's gud to talk and many many thanks for your expert knowledge

 

Cheers,

 

I



#22 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 01:45 PM

I just thought you might have been able to use some of the information within Slimwinbat to compliment the project that you have been working on however you are the best judge of that question, maybe, maybe not?

 

It is a different way to achieve a similar goal.

 

That slimwinbat takes a full install and removes things, back in the oid times I did something similar, NEVER finalized/reproducible/automated via batch or other scripting, for Win2K.

 

The known nlite modifies (reduces) things before or during install.

 

The miniXP/U_XP_SET, and similar approaches are similar to (but still slightly different from) nlite, the idea is (was) to have the bare-bare minimum system and then be able to re-add what is actually needed. 

 

These latter ones are also similar to how XP embedded (should have, but never) worked  (IMHO[1]), a componentized version of the OS.

 

And now, for no apparent reason if not to add a further possible option, having a Windows XP running from CD/DVD (as well not much practical uses, but still nice):

http://reboot.pro/in...?showtopic=3890

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

[1] to be more exact, it did work, if you could find non existing documentation (i.e. discover/invent it yourself) and if the componentization would have been more granular and without the huge mess of dependencies, after a few tens failed builds, you could usually finally succeed into getting something working mostly like you wanted it to, but still usually it was filled with not really needed, and removing that component would lead you again back to a new failed build.






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