39 replies to this topic

[newnec1]

What I am tring to do is setup livexp to be setup on a external hard drive and be able to boot from any computer.

I am tring to create a rescue/virus/spyware removal drive for repairing computers.

I have a 320 gb my passport laptop size drive. I am having a hard time finding some info on booting livexp from a external usb drive.

Can someone help by guidiung me in the right direction?

[Lancelot]

There are lots of possible ways,
i prefer using grub4dos and do next
have you checked tutorial section? lots of nice tutorials there that should help. http://www.boot-land...s/?showforum=31

[amalux]

Lancelot,

I have spent some time looking and cannot find the tutorial you speak of. Remember, this is for booting LiveXP from an external USB hard drive (not UFD). If you could direct me to the tutorial you speak of I would appreciate it

[Lancelot]

amalux

interesting, i cant direct but i thought there should be.
than now we need a tutorial to make if there dont exist
i myself use a 12gb old eide disk for trials and made a turkish tutorial to make "usb flash/2nd hd/1st hd of os", i will try to transfer and modify tutorial here. For now i dont have a usb external hd to make a trial but i guess there wont be a problem and hope you help for approval if you have usb ext hd.

[was_jaclaz]

I cannot see any difference (nor can Windows SETUPLDR.BIN AFAIK) between a partitioned USB stick and and a USB drive.

There can be actually a difference, i.e. the Removable/Fixed "flippable" bit, but it is NOT relevant for PE booting, on the contrary, having the "flippable" bit set to "Fixed" on USB sticks (as it normally is on ANY USB HD controller) allows for more possibilities.

(there are problems with windows SETUP, solved by using the rdummy.sys filter driver, but these won't affect a PE)

So the SAME tutorial can be used for any partitioned device, being it a USB stick or a USB hard drive.

jaclaz

[Lancelot]

So the SAME tutorial can be used for any partitioned device, being it a USB stick or a USB hard drive.

+2nd harddrive

so no need to write another tutorial

and maybe a notice to tutorials at the top that writes "Tutorial for External USB Drive ( USB stick + USB hard drive ) + 2nd harddrive" would be nice for searchers.

[amalux]

Nope, sorry, not so fast! This may be one of those times where theory doesn't comport with reality (or visa versa?). I can setup (almost) any UFD (USB flash drive) to boot LiveXP by using PeToUSB to transfer files from LiveXP Target to USB drive and use a modded ntdetect, easy but have been unable to reproduce from any external USB hard drive even if setup with <2GB FAT partition. PeToUSB does not recognize drive and all attempts at 'flipping' the Removable/Fixed bit have failed (this is why I need a tutorial). I tried wimb's method which works fine for fixed hdd's but still no luck with USB hdd

[Lancelot]

amalux

interesting, sorry i cant test as i wrote before i dont have usbhd for now,
let me ask question:
1)
does image prepared with bootsdi method works with usbhd?

2)
i use ntdetect and start grub4dos from boot.ini

C:\grldr="Start GRUB"

and in menu.lst

title BartPE

find --set-root /minint/setupldr.bin

chainloader /minint/setupldr.bin

does this method work for you with usbhd?

ps: i sent a pm to you amalux? maybe you dont get notified due to some problems in boot-land.net these days.

[was_jaclaz]

amalux,
you missed some of the "history" lessons.

PetoUSB was "born" here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=13784
as a solution to the fact that UNLIKE HD device (read devices with the "Fixed" bit set) the XP built-in disk manager is not capable of writing a MBR to a USB stick (read device with "Removable" bit set).

It is/was an alternative to the HP (actually m-systems) USB Format utility.

In the meantime other solutions have been devised/developed/found, most notably (in no particular order):
1) Using VISTA diskpart which (again UNLIKE XP diskpart) manages USB sticks allright, regardless of the setting of the "flippable" bit
2) Using my own small batches, see here:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5000
3) Using Linux utilities
4) Using DOS utilities
5) A number of "brand specific" manufacturer utilities

At the time when PetoUSB was developed, and I originally wrote my pages:
http://home.graffiti...B/USBstick.html
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html
almost three years ago, size of sticks (and also "level of knowledge on the topic") was much smaller than today, and at the time PetoUSB was a perfect solution for USB sticks only.

Today, while it remains "limited" by design to USB sticks only, it is also lacking functionalities for ANY stick bigger than 2 Mb.

But the added feature of copying the PE files on the stick is just a feature or a commodity, if you prefer, it's availability should not make you forget that one can make a PE boot from HD like devices manually.

For USB HD (read devices with the "Fixed" bit set) simply:
1) use XP built-in disk manager to partition the device and format (at least) one Primary Active partition
2) copy to it's root SETUPLDR.BIN and NTDETECT.COM
3) rename SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR
4) copy the \I386 directory of your PE (.iso or CD) build to the device
5) rename \I386 to \minint
6) boot from the device

Of course variations using grub4dos' grldr, directly through grldr.mbr or indirectly through NTLDR+BOOT.INI, etc. can be added.

Maybe today the above, due to the use (or abuse) of "automated" utilities is becoming "forgotten knowledge"

If you have any problem in following the above steps or have any questions on them, or more generally to booting any PE from USB HD (read devices with the "Fixed" bit set), just ask them, I am sure I can help you on this specific topic.



jaclaz

[amalux]

does image prepared with bootsdi method works with usbhd?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: The way I'm trying to do this is with PeToUSB accessing the LiveXP Target files so I don't think BootSDI matters here (BootSDI is used in the build though). I've also tried wimb's method, using SDI booted from first partition and selected from boot menu; this works fine if partition is on internal hdd but not from external USB drive. Also, I don't want to use a boot menu, I just want the BIOS to check for a bootable USB drive and if there, boot from it; the same way it does with a UFD.

As for option 2, even if I wanted a boot menu I don't think this works; my BIOS only checks for the USB drive if setup as first boot device and seems oblivious to other options; my attempts at getting it to 'see' the internal drive partitions have all failed; if I boot from internal drive with boot menu to access USB drive, this defeats the purpose of a portable boot device. Anyway, like I said, I really don't want a boot menu for this as the USB drive would only be there when needed on any given machine I'm booting from; which is exactly how it works with a UFD. Bottom line, I want the external USB drive to work exactly as my UFD. It may be a simple matter of not knowing how to setup my external USB as a removable device, where can I find instruction on this that is strait forward and clear?

ps: i sent a pm to you amalux? maybe you dont get notified due to some problems in boot-land.net these days.

Yes, there have been issues last couple days but I did get your PM and responded, twice (the second time just had a link) - Did you get them?

[Lancelot]

amalux

Yes, there have been issues last couple days but I did get your PM and responded, twice (the second time just had a link) - Did you get them

NOW i get them
http://img158.images...16/snap4ui8.png
i will report back when i find sth

if I boot from internal drive with boot menu to access USB drive,

you understand me wrong, i put modified ntldr with grub4dos with boot menu to usbflash (and 2nd disk), not to internal drive.

anyway, I hope jaclaz post help which clarify things about pe2usb and very good information about subject, i have things to try in mind but better to have usbhd first and jaclaz is the master you know who have very wide knowledge about hd stuff,
please post here after success/unsuccess about usbhd boot, good luck.

[amalux]

Jaclaz

Thank you my 'History Teacher', I will try now and report (hopefully) success. Yes, I've read all this before (in the past) with limited understanding (no clue), I will re-read now with 'new eyes' and hopefully learn something. Thanks for the refresher course

[amalux]

--
For USB HD (read devices with the "Fixed" bit set) simply:
1) use XP built-in disk manager to partition the device and format (at least) one Primary Active partition
2) copy to it's root SETUPLDR.BIN and NTDETECT.COM
3) rename SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR
4) copy the \I386 directory of your PE (.iso or CD) build to the device
5) rename \I386 to \minint
6) boot from the device

--
If you have any problem in following the above steps or have any questions on them, or more generally to booting any PE from USB HD (read devices with the "Fixed" bit set), just ask them, I am sure I can help you on this specific topic.



jaclaz

Still not working - this is what I tried (first):

Re-formatted USB HD (XP Format tool) with Primary Active NTFS (also tried FAT) partition.
Copied to it's root SETUPLDR.BIN and NTDETECT.COM (from my XP I386 source folder)
Renamed SETUPLDR.BIN to NTLDR (no ext, also tried with)
Copied \I386 directory from LiveXP CD (no BootSDI - also tried with) to USB HD and
Renamed the I386 folder 'minint'



When I tried to boot, I got 'NTLDR is missing'

After reading the links I tried some variations on this but still no luck. This same computer boots fine from USB flash drive.

I'm a bit confused on how this works (obviously), what about the other files from LiveXP (Program Files, Windows etc.) Don't assume I'll include something unless told to do so (at least on first attempt). I did try including other parts of the build on subsequent attempts but when you don't know what you're doing it's like guessing the combination for a padlock

[Lancelot]

-- modified and rearrenged so new post written

[Lancelot]

amalux

for a trial,
copy NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR inside http://tinyempire.co...es/ntldrusb.zip to the root of usbhd
and add BOOT.INI, GRLDR, MENU.LST in http://lancelot.winb...00809230332.rar to the root of usbhd
maybe this works?

[amalux]

Lancelot,

Thanks for that, replaced NTDETECT.COM (only at root) with version you sent - same error 'NTLDR is missing' - but thanks for trying, anything you want tested, I'm happy to try

OK, trying new suggestions now...

[amalux]

Copied new NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR to root (replacing existing) and added BOOT.INI, GRLDR, MENU.LST you sent also to root. This time no error, just blinking cursor. Tried reboot couple times to be sure - still no go. What's next

[Lancelot]

amalux

i am tryin
btw: this is how i use grub4dos and boot .iso and .img files of livexp
(grldr i send is the version i use which is a bit old now)

what is the total size of usbhd you are using :>?

probably your usbhd mbr works nicely to boot, but to be sure let me write what i do,
i use this small utility bootsect.exe (85kb) from MS (easly found by google, if not pm your email address ),
assuming Z: is the primary active partition of usbhd, this command line works with winos you use
(also this is what i do too )
bootsect.exe /nt52 Z: /force


and also
this "ntldr missing" reminds me sth
when usbhd is connected and powered on, reboot your computer and open bios and find usb configuration if exist
to give example from my motherboard (p5b) location is
Bios-->Advanced-->USB Configuration-->Legacy USB Support-->USB Mass Storage Device Configuration-->Emulation Type-->Auto
change Auto to Harddisk
(some bios dont have this)

good luck

[amalux]

USB HD is 320GB but partition is under 2GB for testing.

Ran bootsect [C:/bootsect.exe /nt52 F: /force] - seemed to work OK.

Only options I have in BIOS for this are USB Emulation toggled ON and HDD Sequence (System or USB) set to USB Device (the fact the option is there means it recognises the USB drive at least). This same setup boots from USB flash drive OK.

Still no boot from this USB HD, just flashing cursor (no error)

[Lancelot]

amalux

sorry, i tried I am just a rookie not a master
i will try to find a usbhd to follow your trials,
meanwhile i hope the king of the hd stuff master jaclaz come with a good idea about this

[amalux]

Your help is greatly appreciated, as always - we'll see what the Master has in store...

[Lancelot]

I found a usbhdd and everthing worked fine
here what i do
i found my old 2.1gb eide disk and put it in a eide-usb2 converter box to connect from usb (i look around a lot to find them )
for some reasons 1.7gb fat32 primary active partition is created the way shown in picture

method i explained to amalux already used to add nt52 mb etc.
i boot a .img file (bootsdi) of PE and everthing worked fine (boot.ini loaded, menu.lst shown, selection made, pe boot).


Amalux a question to you, is primary active partition you created the first partition of hd?

Also there are some related issues i took note before about the same subject i guess, although in topics the device is usbflash, symptoms looks similar
1)
post17
http://www.boot-land...4678#entry36399
after post20 no answer
i had a similar issue of someone reported that end with unsuccess
but
my friend bought a usbflash 4gb some months ago who had the same issue, but solved. Problem was he couldnt report back how he solved sayin me "i tried too many things, i dont know what/how worked". Interestingly when someone solves the problem he/she cant repeat it. With next usb flash problem i will ask for a empty disk image .
2)
interesting post24 http://www.boot-land...?...ost&p=42302 which continued with *post35 and post44, i am not sure about the relation and i couldnt make it clear which usbflash used but it took my attention.


as my friend solved the problem without knowing the cure with 4gb usbflash disk, there should be a solution for your case too. I hope when you find solution we can document it clearly .

hope is master jaclaz

[was_jaclaz]

amalux
BOTH the errors you are having (NTLDR is missing AND the "blinking cursor") are related to bootsector. (first one is a message embedded in the standard bootsector, second one, sometimes as a blinking cursor, sometimes as a "j" in upper left of screen, sometimes a "g" are typical "signs" of a "wrong" bootsectors).

Most probably there is a problem in the way you partition it, that causes the subsequent format command to use "wrong" values, for example this is typical when the geometry given in the MBR (in the CHS part) is different from the one actually sensed by BIOS.

It is also possible that you have on that device an "old, wrong" formatting/partitioning that is kept when re-partitioning/re-formatting.

What you should do:
1) Write 00's to first, say 100 sectors of the device
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=5209
2) Partition the device with Disk Management, make just one Primary Partition, slightly below 2 Gb, FAT16
3) Format it
4) copy to it NTLDR (the "real" one from any 2K/XP) + NTDETECT.COM + a BOOT.INI file with at least two entries
5) try booting from the device, you should get to the BOOT.INI choices
6) If not, get HDHACKER:
http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/
and use it to save BOTH the MBR (Physical drive) and the bootsector (Logical drive), compress the two files together in a .zip or .7z archive and post the file here, I will check them and hopefully find what is going wrong.



jaclaz

[amalux]

Jaclaz,
here's the HDHacker files
 hdhF.7z   1.03KB   359 downloads

Latest is 'Missing Operating System' (or similar)

Current files:


'minint' = renamed I386 from LiveXP CD
NTDETECT and NTLDR from my XP SP2 source
BOOT.INI text:

[Boot Loader]

timeout=0

default=C:\grldr



[Operating Systems]

C:\grldr="Start GRUB"

[was_jaclaz]

I have got the files, I'll have a look at them, but right now I'm out of town, have not my usual tools/files installed, however (from a quick look at them):
1) the MBR embeds THREE strings:
a.Invalid partition table
b.Error loading operating system
c.Missing operating system
2) the bootsector embeds as well THREE strings:
a.Remove disks or other media.
b.Disk error
c.Press any key to restart

I guess it's 1).c, is it not?

Just as a test, until I have the possibility to check the files, please re-format the partition, and ONLY copy to it these files and in this order:
NTLDR
NTDETECT.COM
BOOT.INI
GRLDR

Edit the BOOT.INI to have at least two entries AND a time out, example:

[Boot Loader]

timeout=15

default=C:\grldr



[Operating Systems]

C:\grldr="Start GRUB"

C:\dummy="A suffusion of yellow"

It won't probably solve the problem, but allows for actually knowing what happens, when we will get it to boot.

What size is the partition?

Can you access the drive with beeblebrox:
http://students.cs.byu.edu/~codyb/
and post a screenshot or just report the values you see?
Should be something like:
80-06-0-1-1-n-254-63-63-xxxxxxx

jaclaz