98 replies to this topic

[Lancelot]

'Antivirus_Malware' just 'Antivirus' and change 'Windows Install Tools' to 'OS Setup' and 'Mbr' to 'MBR'

Malware was added for anti-spyware utilities and so far we have only SpybotSD from JonF. Because all of them are "Anti" i agree with single 'AntiVirus' name.
'Antivirus_Malware' to 'AntiVirus'
'Mbr' to 'MBR'
'Windows Install Tools' to 'OS Setup' , what about 'Windows Install Tools' to 'Windows OS Setup' ?


----

I find the '1Extra' sub redundant and unnecessary??

A small brief to you, this is the last version of your explanation at post 38:

Like Galapo said, thank you for all your hard work on this

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one; I'll always prefer this


to this

Than at post 50 i decide to make only single folder

...
But there is always a midway ....
Instead of 5 branches like: EA, EAE, EB, ECT, ECU which was more useful with different app folder
I can offer only 1, Extra

So distinguishing between commerial, trial ... scripts gone making folder structure more tidy, but still distinguish between project scripts and extra scripts exists

I lost idea of simple click option to disable extra scripts and with this offer i lost distinguishing script type,
I guess enough ???

More shortly, i very strongly believe there should be a seperation of apps.winbuilder and livexp.bootland scripts


---
System/Registry , what do you want me to move to this folder ?


Edit: offer--->explanation

[amalux]

--
what about 'Windows Install Tools' to 'Windows OS Setup' ?

how about just 'Windows Setup' ? or 'Windows OS Setup' is fine too

More shortly, i very strongly believe there should be a separation of apps.winbuilder and livexp.bootland scripts

OK, I agree! but what exactly goes into all these '1Extra' folders?? Why isn't it two identical folder structures, one under apps.winbuilder and one under livexp.bootland or did I miss sth??

System/Registry , what do you want me to move to this folder ?

I would think RegShot, RegTracer, RegScanner, RegResWiz, RegRepair, RegEdit, RegEditWB etc. - things like that.

[Lancelot]

--
just 'Windows Setup' , done

--
By giving example:
*
If this is made with your offer than after downloading livexp.bootland and apps.winbuild we will have this:

Apps\Security\AntiVirus\asquare_free.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\avastVC.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\ClamWin_Portable_paf.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\DrWebAV_amalux.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\Kaspersky_Antivirus_2009.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\spybot.script

So we wont be able to distinguish between project scripts and extra scripts

*
With Current configuration, after downloading livexp.bootland and apps.winbuild we will have this:

Apps\Security\AntiVirus\asquare_free.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\avastVC.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\spybot.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\ClamWin_Portable_paf.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\DrWebAV_amalux.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\Kaspersky_Antivirus_2009.script

i guess you understand me !?
ps: After building LiveXP, all shortcuts will be in AntiVirus

-
your System\Registry\ demands is very close to my guess about it (post72) , i vote nothing (Empty vote), better to ask galapo for his opinion ?

@Galapo
what you say about System\Registry ?

[Galapo]

@Galapo
what you say about System\Registry ?

Yes, that's fine by me.

[Lancelot]

Here is the catalog file for livexp apps
http://lancelot.winb...00901220800.rar

any offer for script move, new folder etc ?

[amalux]

If this is made with your offer than after downloading livexp.bootland and apps.winbuild we will have this:

Apps\Security\AntiVirus\asquare_free.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\avastVC.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\ClamWin_Portable_paf.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\DrWebAV_amalux.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\Kaspersky_Antivirus_2009.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\spybot.script

So we wont be able to distinguish between project scripts and extra scripts
--
With Current configuration, after downloading livexp.bootland and apps.winbuild we will have this:

Apps\Security\AntiVirus\asquare_free.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\avastVC.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\spybot.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\ClamWin_Portable_paf.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\DrWebAV_amalux.script
Apps\Security\AntiVirus\1Extra\Kaspersky_Antivirus_2009.script

OK, we're very close to agreement so let's take a minute here to work out this final question in my mind. I thought the idea was to have the 'free' and 'extra' scripts separated at the server end so that users know what they're getting before they choose to download into a project and this should allow to de-select all non-free scripts with one switch which is a really good idea!! Once scripts are downloaded to the project, what is the point of separating the free from the non-free? To remind the user what they already know? This seems unnecessary to me and a bit annoying; the first thing I'd do after downloading is move all anti-virus scripts, free or otherwise into my anti-virus folder

[Lancelot]

I thought the idea was to have the 'free' and 'extra' scripts separated

Nope, the idea was making a new server to deploy scripts by winbuilder easly. For this i though a seperate folder first so we would have different folders:
Apps\
Appu\
Than i thought it will be nice to seperate free,trial commercial scripts which results with this:
Apps\
Apps_A\
Apps_B\
Apps_CT\
Apps_CU\
but Galapo and you didnt like seperated application folder so with shown in the picture of your previous post (i quoted):
Apps\Hd Tasks\A
Apps\Hd Tasks\B
Apps\Hd Tasks\CT
Apps\Hd Tasks\CU

this should allow to de-select all non-free scripts with one switch which is a really good idea!!

But this looked really bad and very untidy, so as i wrote before at post~50 i decide not to seperate free,trial,commercial but only seperate project scripts from extra scripts which results with the current:
Apps\Hd Tasks\
Apps\Hd Tasks\1Extra
This is not to seperate from free or non free, as i wrote many times this is to seperate livexp.bootland scripts from apps.winbuilder scripts

the first thing I'd do after downloading is move all anti-virus scripts, free or otherwise into my anti-virus folder

wont be practical for you but as you wish, reminding that you will need a second winbuilder folder to dl apps.winbuilder to get updates and move scripts updated to your livexp winbuilder folder.

Believe me amalux, "1Extra" wont hurt, if you want all av selected, you just enable 'AntiVirus' which would also select 'AntiVirus\1Extra'


I guess there is no suggestion about last catalog (post80), So i start to make some additions to scripts and going next stage of organising (will post picture when ready)

[amalux]

--
current:
Apps\Hd Tasks\
Apps\Hd Tasks\1Extra
This is not to seperate from free or non free, as i wrote many times this is to seperate livexp.bootland scripts from apps.winbuilder scripts

Please give very simple explanation for purpose and function of each server and what type of scripts are supplied by each. i.e. Why two servers? Please explain what you mean by 'Extra' scripts.

Forgive me but I feel like I'm missing your intention and I'm hoping by your answers above to understand more clearly what your trying to do with the two servers idea. You've already made a great improvement in organizing the scripts and we agree on the folder structure, script classification etc. I just want to understand better your intention to separate 'project scripts' from 'extra scripts', define these terms for me one last time if you don't mind.

[Lancelot]

project scripts are scripts that comes from the project

extra scripts are scripts made by individuals but not in projects: ex: OpenOfficePortable2_paf.script, AMOK_cddvd_burning.Script,DVDIdentifier_Amalux.script

Project masters are responsible for all scripts that is provided by the project, so whenever a problem happens in a script we ask project master. Also they try to make size as low as possible.

In other words, this is a way to provide and update individual scripts easly with winbuilder. Just clicking download with winbuilder will give a long list of availabe scripts

[amalux]

hmm, probably a language thing; I'll just have to wait and try it to see how it works

Thanks again for all your hard work and looking forward to seeing the final result

[Galapo]

Let me try to sum up.

A common app folder structure between LiveXP and additional apps supplied at app.winbuilder.net has been worked out.

The difference with app.winbuilder.net is that they will download into a subfolder called 'Extra'.

Lancelot supports this idea as it means that app scripts which haven't been supplied with the project download are easy to identify. Amalux and I (perhaps as less tidy people?) would not have a problem with the scripts downloading into their respective folder category rather than the 'Extra' sub-folder.

Along the way, Amalax and I liked the idea of separating scripts for "freeware" apps from those for "commercial" apps at the server end, eg apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Freeware and apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Commercial. I'm not sure if Lancelot is for or against this idea.

Anyway, I think that's where this discussion is currently at.

Regards,
Galapo.

[Lancelot]

Amalax and I liked the idea of separating scripts for "freeware" apps from those for "commercial" apps at the server end

I totally missed this as there was no rejection after post50, anyway can done by relooking old catalog files.

Along the way, Amalax and I liked the idea of separating scripts for "freeware" apps from those for "commercial" apps at the server end, eg apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Freeware and apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Commercial. I'm not sure if Lancelot is for or against this idea.

Not much against, a little bit. Another idea is Maybe putting Commercial to "complete" category and trials etc to "Recommended" and all in one to "minimum" maybe a solution??
Download_Level=0
Download_Level=1
Download_Level=2
?

Also once Nuno wrote me in a mail this, i guess no problem sharing here:

I would recommend to avoid the current designations as they won't help the user know what to expect. Instead of using a code it would be better to leave well written as (Freeware, Commercial, trial, etc) and everyone (even non-english speakers) would know what it had inside from the first glance. (I think people hate using their heads for anything these days so it's up for us to make their lifes easier and reduce the "fear factor").

[Galapo]

Another idea is Maybe putting Commercial to "complete" category and trials etc to "Recommended" and all in one to "minimum" maybe a solution??

Yes, I'd agree with this too. Only a couple may still be candidates to remain in "Recommended" such as FindOnClick say and possibly ZoneAlarm. So "Complete" would contain scripts for commercial apps as well as freeware apps adding further choice to that already in "Recommended".

Separation at apps.winbuilder.net is also worthwhile I think.

Regards,
Galapo.

[amalux]

Let me try to sum up.

A common app folder structure between LiveXP and additional apps supplied at app.winbuilder.net has been worked out.

The difference with app.winbuilder.net is that they will download into a subfolder called 'Extra'.

Lancelot supports this idea as it means that app scripts which haven't been supplied with the project download are easy to identify. Amalux and I (perhaps as less tidy people?) would not have a problem with the scripts downloading into their respective folder category rather than the 'Extra' sub-folder.

Along the way, Amalax and I liked the idea of separating scripts for "freeware" apps from those for "commercial" apps at the server end, eg apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Freeware and apps.winbuilder.net/LiveXPAdditions/Commercial. I'm not sure if Lancelot is for or against this idea.

Anyway, I think that's where this discussion is currently at.

Regards,
Galapo.

Thank you Galapo, your summarizations really help but probably because we already agree - where I'm having trouble is with Lancelot's 'Extras' concept; what determines which scripts are 'extras' and why should they be separated into sub-folders named 'Extra'??? - I know I must be missing sth here

Restriction of any commercial scripts (i.e. program that won't work without purchasing software and supplying license key etc.) to 'Complete' project download works for me.

[Galapo]

- where I'm having trouble is with Lancelot's 'Extras' concept; what determines which scripts are 'extras' and why should they be separated into sub-folders named 'Extra'???

That's up to the project maintainer. The project maintainer decides what downloads with their project under the various options "Minimum", "Recommended", and "Complete". apps.winbuilder.net is a proposal to have a place where further app scripts may be downloaded that didn't come with the project (even "Complete"). These additional scripts would download to their respective category but under a subfolder 'Extra' so as to maintain identification between what came with the project download and what didn't.

Regards,
Galapo.

[Lancelot]

amalux
it will be more clear when livexp apps reorgonised+uploaded and i start a apps.winbuilder test broadcast, for now the first step is livexp project apps reorganisation takes lots of time.


@all
i make addings to scripts of livexp to maintain shortcut creation more easier through interface,.
also i changed "Net\VNC" to "Net\Remote Connect" , there are other softwares than vnc (ex: TeamViewer) out there for remote access

Here is the current catalog file
http://lancelot.winb...00901230300.rar

For default livexp complete, i make 2 settings:
multires enabled
calculator quicklaunch disabled

Also i make AntiVirus shortcuts be in root of StartMenu,

Better to explain with created shortcuts, sharing ModelRam would make the summary.

http://lancelot.winb...5F/ModelRam.rar


Comments??

[risolutore]

I got a very powerful LiveXP from the 40mb raccomended.. Iwas an old power user of BartPe since 1.1 came out abd should be retired by Bart. (MS complainings..) I also have good success.. with VistaPE ver 11.
The reorganization into groups of program is interesting. is this sharable between LiveXP and VistaPe? sometimes I add in *.script the shortcut with category, sometimes not, because I think that automatically get labelled when are inside a category folder. .. ATM wich is the best way to make script usable under latest LIveXP?

[Lancelot]

Hi risolutore,

I guess you understand the topic differently , We came to an agrement and current apps subfolders of LiveXP is the result.

Yes when you dont make some addings, startmenu automatically get labelled. I prefer making adding to interface, process

wich is the best way to make script usable under latest LIveXP?

look the existant scripts, only way to learn. , also use api commands in which most scripts use. (CDImageGUI.script is a nice example for a start)

Sadly there is no direct connection between LiveXP and VistaPe. Besides lots of apps scripts are sharable between vistape and livexp, but not all. We have a direct connection between projects with api so when you use api commands with a script, script is compatible with both vistape and livexp. (Ex: CDImageGUI.script)


This gives me an idea,
@Galapo
Maybe on livexp making all \apps section scripts also compatible with Vistape can be a nice solution? so a LiveXP user copy apps folder to vistape project and build with that.
or maybe putting a check routine to non vistape compatible apps\scripts is enough (ex: from easus, If,NOTEXISTVAR,%ForceAllToRam%,Exit,"This script is not for VistaPE" or maybe something else to check from source)

What you say?

[Galapo]

@Galapo
Maybe on livexp making all \apps section scripts also compatible with Vistape can be a nice solution? so a LiveXP user copy apps folder to vistape project and build with that.
or maybe putting a check routine to non vistape compatible apps\scripts is enough (ex: from easus, If,NOTEXISTVAR,%ForceAllToRam%,Exit,"This script is not for VistaPE" or maybe something else to check from source)

What you say?

Most app-scripts will be compatible with VistaPE, just that we've tended to provide specifying a startmenu folder. User can always change or delete this if so desired when shifting scripts between projects.

Some scripts on LiveXP server would be incompatible currently with VistaPE, eg those writing entries to txtsetup.sif. Also there is that issue of where it was suggested that WB projects define standard variables used in other projects. nativeEx and LiveXP has defined what was VistaPE-only variables, but to the best of my knowledge VistaPE still has not defined standard nativeEx variables, despite me sending a new script.project with everything done to the developers. So I think we should just leave it up to VistaPE users to complain and fix themselves if they want to see this happen.

Regards,
Galapo.

[Lancelot]

I decide to answer billonious here because this is the right topic things about grouping should discussed:

more or less, my scheme is :
$: shareware, need s/n
www: to be downloaded from net (not encoded in script)


-> CDVD burn

• > amok, deepburner, cdimage, infra, ultraiso($)

-> filetasks

• >archievers > Izarc , 7zip
• > browsers > Q-dir, YXplorerFree, freecommander,
• > finders > AgentRansak , Superfinder, findonclick
• > forensics > tinyhexer , resourcehacker , winmerge, MitecFileAnalyzer
• > misc > Hjsplit, List, treesize
• > unlockers > Killbox, Unlocker

-> HDisk

• > backup > DrvImageXML, Selfimage, GImageX, Ghost($)
• > check&fix > >DirkPaehl Chkdisk
• > defrag > ...
• > diagnostic > HD Tune, HD Speed, WD Lifeguard, Ariolic HDScan
• > encrypt > truecrypt
• > erase > Eraser, UltraShredder, @KillDisk (free,www)
• > format > Easus Partition Manager(www) , Acronis DD($), Paragon PM($)
• > Low Level Edit > HD Hacker
• > mbr > MBRfix , BootsectGui
• > mount new fs > ext2fs , MountstoragePE
• > virtual disks > virtual drives...

-> Recover

• > archieves > DiskInternals ZIP repair
• > CDVD > recoveryToolbox4cd
• > EFS > DiskInternalsNTFSreader ...
• > Files > Recuva, HandyRecovery ....
• > Linux > Explore2fs...
• > Partitions > GrenierTestDisk ..

-> net

• > PE network, PE dialup
• > browsers > cd-opera, firefox ....
• > dl managers > utorrent, wackget
• > firewall > zonealarm(www)
• > ftp > filezilla
• > misc > ip scanners, IM
• > remote connect > teamviewer, TightVPN , remotedesktop

-> malware

• > virus scanners > DRweb(www) , Clamwin(www), KasperksyTool(www), MicrotrendSysClean(www), McaffeeGUI(www)
• > lite scanners > McaffeeStinger(www), AvastCleaner(www)
• > spyware scanners> SpybotS&D(www)

-> productivity

• > office > sumatraPDF, spread32, abiword, openofficePaf(www), calculator, notpad++,
• > grafics > irfanview, xnview, paint
• > multimedia > VLCplayer
• > games (antiproductivity) ....

-> edit local registry

• > Admin Keys > SalaPWRenew, @PWchanger($), LCP, WindowsGate
• > App Keys > NirsoftProductKey, ElcomsfotPDFpwRecovery(free) ,
• > backup drivers > driverExportPE
• > services/devices > servicesPE
• > startup entries > startupCPL(& runscanner)
• > reg cleaners > ccleaner (& runscanner)
• > reg editors > mitec reg recovery, reg restore wiz, runscanner ....

-> pe system

• > mmc, pagefile, taksmanager , driverimportpe, cmd ....
• > shell > shellwm
• > debug> dependecy walker ....

Hi billonious,
i look at your "grouping strategy" one by one . Here are my comments:

With LiveXP it is prefered to put most popular software scripts (+single or less numbered scripts) to the root of the group:
example: Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script is not in \LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\ , it is in \LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\
example: OfflineSysPrep.script is not in LiveXP\Apps\System\Windows Setup\ , it is in LiveXP\Apps\System\
example: Ghost_Lance.script is not in \LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\!Extra, it is in \LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\!Extra

Your grouping and current LiveXP grouping is similar at some points, mostly name changes.
Example: LiveXP uses "Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging", you offer "HDisk\backup"

And i guess some naming you used are wrong:
Example: LiveXP uses "Apps\HD Tasks" you offer "HDisk\Format" (I think format is wrong to use for that purpose)

Also there are other differences:
yours: HDisk\encrypt\truecrypt LiveXP: \LiveXP\Apps\Security\TrueCrypt.script (if we have more crypto scripts, we can create a new section on Apps\Security\Encrypt , but currently TrueCrypt.script is most popular and only crypt script of livexp so it stays in Apps\Security )



you wrote:
forensics > tinyhexer , resourcehacker , winmerge, MitecFileAnalyzer
LiveXP current:
\Apps\File Tasks\tinyhexer
\Apps\File Tasks\winmerge
\Apps\HD Tasks\Diagnostic\MitecFileAnalyzer

Keeping current structure: you say MitecFileAnalyzer should be moved to \Apps\File Tasks\ right????



It is obvious we will have more grouping in future, but i guess current is enough.



ps:
can you help me to get these scripts you use. (i reallly have not much time daily with computers)
freecommander
resourcehacker
Killbox
DirkPaehl Chkdisk
HD Speed
WD Lifeguard
Ariolic HDScan
BootsectGui
ext2fs
virtual drives
GrenierTestDisk
utorrent
SalaPWRenew
PWchanger
LCP
ElcomsfotPDFpwRecovery(free)

[billonious]

I have not serious objections about the folder names, since there is a reasonable grouping/naming. I mean it doesn't matter whether is named 'imaging' instead of 'backup', because it is (about) the same and everybody can understand what it is.

As for the apps tinyhexer , resourcehacker , winmerge, MitecFileAnalyzer, I think that as far as they deal with individual files, it would be better if they found in 'file tasks' (on the other hand, hexeditors can handle with HDisks). But I don't stick on this.

The main concept is to keep a number of groups neither too high nor low. 7 to 10 groups could be the golden mean for fast & easy browsing. What do you think?

Another point is not leave files in bulk. For example, AcronisTI could be in "HDisk Tasks/Imaging', but not in "HDisk Tasks". Subgroups are more handy than plain groups.

I also like distincts 'recover' & 'antimalware' groups. If groups were categorize acording to the priority of usage? I mean that virus scanners are a serious reason for using PEs. So, a dinstict group. It is just my personal preference .

[Lancelot]

Another point is not leave files in bulk. For example, AcronisTI could be in "HDisk Tasks/Imaging', but not in "HDisk Tasks". Subgroups are more handy than plain groups.

As i wrote before, it is preferred to make most used scripts at the root. But maybe you are right for TI. Better to get Galapo's opinion too.

I also like distincts 'recover' & 'antimalware' groups.

recover & antimalware are different groups. All antivirus and antimalwares are in \Security\AntiVirus and because they are special with some reasons you gave, when you make your build you get shortcuts at "Start Menu\AntiVirus" (not Start Menu\Security\AntiVirus). Also if i remember right i offered Apps\Antivirus but probably rejected to keep main branch number low (8) for the reason you gave.

The main concept is to keep a number of groups neither too high nor low

we have 8 major group under apps.

if you click "View LiveXP change log" and search for: 2009-Jan-23
you will see we changed all structure after this topic, sorry you were not around at these time. (to see old structure download LiveXP for wb074 at winbuilder website) I dont like to make another "Major change" with grouping (which you mainly request) but things can be done drop by drop.




@Galapo

what you think about moving \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script to \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script ?

also i noticed \Apps\Supplementary\HxD.script should be in \Apps\File Tasks\ (where TinyHexer.script is ) or vice versa ?

[Galapo]

what you think about moving \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script to \Projects\LiveXP\Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script ?

Yep, I agree it's better placed under 'Imaging'.

also i noticed \Apps\Supplementary\HxD.script should be in \Apps\File Tasks\ (where TinyHexer.script is ) or vice versa ?

Probably put HxD.script under 'File Tasks'.

Regards,
Galapo.

[Lancelot]

Acronis-TrueImage91Workstation.Script moved from \Apps\HD Tasks\ to \Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\
HxD.script moved from \Apps\Supplementary\ to \Apps\File Tasks\

ps: "ghost lance" script moved to \Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\!Extra\

drop by drop billonious