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Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!


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#76 mikiem

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 02:06 AM

Working with a couple of ISO's from "lx78sp6cbw" & "lx78sp6mtw" [linked in tutorial] I wanted to pass on a couple of things in case anyone found them helpful, & at the same time say Thanks. :dubbio:

I'm a fan of portableapps.com -- their setup I believe is based on NSIS, uses a separate launcher per app, redirects whatever app to local files when it wants to read/write to a file or files in Docs & Setting, does the same for registry keys/values the app needs, &/or creates/uses/deletes temp files &/or reg entries/keys. There's a menu/prog launcher, they've got a fair selection of apps, & there's a tool I often use that you can find in their forums called Portable App Creator. And it seems to work well with the ppApps setup I think is so great with these 2 LiveXP projects. Since the PortableApps .exe & folder needs to be at root, same as the ppApps folder, I added a PortableApps sub-folder & simply stuck a shortcut to the .exe in it along with a very simple setups.cmd I copied from one of the base packs -- it lists the shortcut rather than the app's .exe file. [the ppApp.ini method for whatever reason didn't work] At any rate, this seems very close to ideal as I can have the portable apps on an external drive or USB stick, use it that way in Windows, then have the same available in LiveXP. Portable-VBox running a 7 Ult 32 trial VM seems to work great too.

For tracking changes to a system from an app install, &/or figuring out just what it needs, I've come to rely on InstallWatch Pro, though it may be a bit harder to find now days. It doesn't work in 64 bit, & it can be slow in a regular Windows install, but in something like XP mode [&/or a bare install of 7 trial in a VM] it works very well, giving you a breakdown of files & reg changes, deletes, & adds, each category broken down by HKCR, HKCU, HKLM, & HKU -- all are exportable as reg files. Then I put the registry back, either restoring an ERUNT backup or just copying over the XPMode vhd, & monitor what happens to the registry [using regshot] when I run the app without any prior registry changes... Quite often the app will add just what it needs, & for the purpose of running it in LiveXP I'd guess no further work required since any reg changes are by nature temporary -- I'm used to recording changes for conversion to the portableapps.com format, where I'd want to prevent them. When just running the app isn't enough, I've got the exported reg file to work with, & I copy/paste entries into a fresh .reg file & merge till it works. Once I think I've got it nailed down, I'll go into XP Pro SP3 32, fire up & activate TimeFreeze, merge my .reg file, start regshot, take the 1st shot, then try the app. There is a very real difference between running a bare VM & my regular install, so I've found the 2nd step in XP Pro necessary, just like I've found I needed the bare VM step because if an app wants to install something I've already gotten installed, those potential changes may never get recorded. TimeFreeze re-directs any hdd writes to a temporary swap file, so on re-boot everything's as it was -- I use it because I grabbed it on GOTD, but before that found ERUNT worked well enough for testing on my regular install [I already know about any file changes from monitoring in the VM]. For tracking registry changes in 7 64 I use Regshot2, which works very well.

Other than that I'm slowly working my way through my small collection of regular portable apps to see what works in LiveXP & doesn't, & haven't gotten terribly far along. I know working with older Paragon apps, mainly backup, copying "qtp-mt334.dll" from the system folder to the app's program folder was all that was needed for the app to run portably -- wouldn't have the hotcore processing, but as I'd be running LiveXP to restore a Paragon backup, not create one, that never mattered. Their latest GOTD, Paragon Backup & Recovery 10 Home Special Edition is a bit different... for one thing it runs if I use the app as Uniextract expands it, but not a copy of the installed folder. For another, the uim image mounting drivers come with a setup file & are stored alongside the app in the program's folder -- I haven't done any testing yet, but running that setup file in LiveXP seems to work fine, with the drivers showing up in Device Mgr same as in XP Pro. I mention it because Paragon apps seem highly regarded here, & hoped better minds than mine might want to check further themselves -- the app includes some virtualization & partitioning BTW.

#77 amalux

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:16 AM

Hi mikiem and welcome :thumbup:

Thank you for your intelligent and thoughtful post; I've used many of the tools and procedures you mention along the way but some are new to me and I look forward to trying them out. I'm convinced more than ever that portable apps in PE is the way to go and it's a lot of fun to see your favorite programs working portable. I've been using portable versions of Paragon's newest Partition Manager and Virtual Manager and have been very impressed; I still prefer Acronis or Ghost for backups though :dubbio:

I'm surprised by your statement...

the ppApp.ini method for whatever reason didn't work

Why? I can't think of a reason unless your folder directory is wrong; ppApp.ini will only be recognized at root:\ppApps[Live]\Program\ppApp.ini (unless you're using a source mod). If you want to post the content of the ini, I'll be happy to check it for you.

:thumbup:

#78 mikiem

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:31 PM

Why? I can't think of a reason unless your folder directory is wrong; ppApp.ini will only be recognized at root:\ppApps[Live]\Program\ppApp.ini (unless you're using a source mod). If you want to post the content of the ini, I'll be happy to check it for you.
:cheers:


Hi

Actually I screwed up originally using a shortcut, because on other PCs with different drive/partition setups it broke -- I should have known that, but guess I was preoccupied checking & making sure everything else worked . I tried the Junction app from SysInternals to create a folder inside ppApps that was a link to the drive root, but that's relative to the drive/partition arrangement too. I also found & played around with the shortcut method here: http://social.answer...b-66756d3409d3/ , but while that worked in Windows it wouldn't in LiveXP. I tried %~dp0 several ways, & that didn't work. I also tried every variation of cd I could come up with. Then I came across a thread with this: %cd:~0,3% & while I've no idea why, it works. <_<

The folder setup is:
PortableApps --> portable apps in individual folders
StartPortableApps.exe
ppApps ----> PortAppsMenu ----> Setups.cmd

The .cmd contents are copied from your examples, with "goto runXP" etc., & with the xlink line:

xlink "%Start%\PortableApps\StartPortApps" "%cd:~0,3%\StartPortableApps.exe" "" "%cd:~0,3%\" "%Description%" "" ""
------------------

That said, now that I'm done indulging myself with a good puzzle, Anything you can tell me about how/where I went wrong, what I should use, how to do it simpler would be *Very* welcome. :mellow: Same with a way to use ppApps.ini -- I just copied one of yours & inserted the shortcut in place of an .exe file, *But* originally the shortcut I used was probably bad to start with. Now that I've got the setups.cmd working, I tried substituting %cd:~0,3%\StartPortableApps.exe without any luck -- the same with %~dp0, though I think I remember you writing that it would only work in setups.cmd. At any rate, anything more or less off the top of your head to further my education (&/or anyone else's) would be great, though I don't want to impose or cause you to spend all sorts of time/effort just to satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks again

Edited by mikiem, 03 October 2010 - 11:33 PM.


#79 amalux

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:00 AM

OK, whatever works is fine with me <_<

I'm not really understanding your question on StartPortableApps.exe, what is it? Does it launch a tray menu like ASuite or is it something else? Where can I download it to test; I find PortableApps website confusing...

If all it does is launch a tray menu, this should be very simple.

#80 mikiem

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:01 AM

I've been using portable versions of Paragon's newest Partition Manager and Virtual Manager and have been very impressed; I still prefer Acronis or Ghost for backups though <_<
:cheers:


Totally FWIW & assuming it's of interest... please forgive if not.

I've been using Paragon's stuff for a few years now, & while Acronis is much better/faster I think booting from their CD vs. Paragon's *nix setup, in Windows IMHO Paragon *might* have a slight edge (of course if you actually pay for their software instead of grabbing it from magazine offers & GOTD, you get their WinPE disc). OTOH their habit of *fixing* things can catch you off guard when you're new to their apps -- restore a backup image to an empty vhd in 7 & it'll add it to the BCD loader for example.

RE: virtualization, when/if possible I've come to like restoring a backup image to vhd rather than mounting it right off the bat in their Virtualization Mgr... that way you can rename folders, get rid of garbage, & resize the partition downwards, & that seems to make things much easier when you do use one of their apps to convert to a VM. (e.g. trying to stop or uninstall McAfee while the VM's trying to install drivers is a nightmare I'm not anxious to repeat, & if you don't, might as well go to bed & look at it in the am because McAfee has everything tied up rock solid). At any rate, while I've yet to get my hands on their new/improved version of Virtualization Mgr., if you work with an intermediate vhd there seems little advantage to the older versions compared to their more slimmed down apps. So far the only prob I've had [& it was a bear] was from Paragon's programs (3 different images using 3 different apps for conversion to VM) leaving an AMD/ATI driver in place for the pci x slots -- until it was changed to generic pci, no additions or networking or anything would install properly. :mellow:

#81 mikiem

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 12:47 AM

OK, whatever works is fine with me <_<

I'm not really understanding your question on StartPortableApps.exe, what is it? Does it launch a tray menu like ASuite or is it something else? Where can I download it to test; I find PortableApps website confusing...

If all it does is launch a tray menu, this should be very simple.


To unpack (install) the PortableApps platform IMHO the best way is to stick in a USB stick, then run their basic setup app http://sourceforge.n...s/portableapps/ or http://portableapps.com/suite -- clicking the download button will go to a page where you have you choice of 3 versions that differ only in how much is bundled with it. Once expanded on the USB stick everything can be copied most anywhere, but in order for the app installers to work I think it has to be at root, same as ppApps. In fact I use a few like The Gimp on my hdd instead of the installed versions because I've had trouble with those in the past.

You're right in what it does -- it provides a pop-up menu to launch any apps inside the PortableApps folder. I've been using a modded version that allows storing the app shortcuts in something like folders [categories] which the official version won't have for a little while yet. The mod also loads from a database so you don't have to wait while it scans the PortableApps folder. To give an example of how/why I use the format, I downloaded the IObit defragger, monitored the install in 7's XPMode VM, & found it stored it's configuration .ini under User\App Data, though otherwise it seemed portable. I copied the installed program's folder to ...\Portableapps\IObitDefragPortable\App\, then started Portable_App_Creator... it took a system snapshot, I pointed it at the IObit .exe file, it started the IObit defragger, it recorded the added folder, & long story short when I was done it added a launcher: ...\PortableApps\IObitDefragPortable\IObitDefragPort.exe -- it also added a Data folder with a few other files/folders. Now when I start that launcher (IObitDefragPort.exe) it re-directs any reads/writes to the ini file it created in that Data folder. For really portable apps it's not worth it to me personally -- I'd just as soon double click the .exe files -- but they have a fair selection of apps, a version of Java, & using their format I've been able to make a fair number of programs portable, storing license keys etc., having games that save games to the portable drive/USB stick rather than the HDD etc. There's quite a bit more that's possible, but I'm not nearly enough of a scripter to even begin following their docs & examples on how they do it with the prepacked apps they have for download.

And to me it's a HUGE plus being able to access those apps from LiveXP, as well as the regular way running a full, installed version of Windows... I've been slowly picking things up here & there, & together with several of their downloads I've got ~7GB worth. I won't come close to needing all those in LiveXP, but I can't say how glad I am that I won't have to play with the one's I may want to use. <_< :cheers: :mellow:

#82 amalux

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 02:08 AM

This works --> setup your directory like this:
Attached File  ppa_portapps.png   4.31KB   15 downloads

Remember, this can be in a separate ppapps folder (more than one allowed); in this case, by itself, on a ufd which I plug in when needed.

with this in the ini for shortcuts:

<Title>
PortableApps Launcher

<Flags>
MakeInRoot = 0
MakeStart = 1
MakeSendTo = 0
MakeDesktop = 1
MakeQuickLaunch = 1

<StartMenuSourcePath>
Portables

<ppApp>
CommandLine = "StartPortableApps.exe"
ShortcutName = "Start PortableApps Menu"
Description = "Launches PortableApps Menu in System Tray"

<End>


and this in setups.cmd if you want it auto-started:

::Include program settings (optional).
regedit /s pa.reg
::Auto-run PortableApps menu in tray.
start "" StartPortableApps.exe


the regedit is only needed if you want special settings, license info etc. added automatically.
Attached File  portapps.png   97.91KB   30 downloads

--
Similar to another launcher I've used that was years ahead of it's time:
Attached File  lupo.png   166.59KB   29 downloads

#83 jre

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 09:18 AM

Hi Amalux

A simple noob question. Which is the latest pre-configured build we should use? Is the following assumption correct?

Latest build:
lx80rc3mtw-95pw
ppApps_X701 (Base)
ppApps_X702 (Add on)

Old builds:
lx78sp6cbw, lx78sp6cxw or lx77rc2cbw (010210)
ppApps_Base! (120609)
ppApps_Extras1 (120609)
etc.

Thanks.

#84 amalux

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:20 PM

Yes, correct :devil:

fyi, the older ppapps packages are interchangeable in any (ppapps supporting) LiveXP build (PE1). The newer 'X7' type introduce compatibility between LiveXP and supported Win7PE (PE3) type builds (W7PEX; Win7PE_SE; Make_PE3 etc). So you can have one ppApps base which loads in any image you boot to e.g. multi-boot LiveXP/Win7PE etc.

Using older type ppapps in PE3 type boot disks will mostly fail so should be kept separate; multiple base directories is allowed and helps to keep things organized.

#85 helmut47

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:39 AM

Hello to everyone and big thanks to all these experts, who share their knowledge here
and spend a lot of time time to help other users.

I'm from Berlin Germany and my native language is German. So don't worry about my
"low level" English.

With the help of Amalux's excellent tutorial I got the lx80rc3mtw-95pw project
running with XP (incl. slipped SP3) on an 1GB NTFS formatted USB-Stick (using "wimb's wonderful,
MAKE_USB tool" :clap: word!). Even most of the ppApps that I tried are running "out of the box" without problems.
I managed it to get firefox 6 running with my own profile using a simple setups.cmd (could post a short "how to" if there is interrest).

Here is a report of my "get started" experience and of course some questions:

1) I can't get a WLAN profile autoloading in the PE network
I exported a profile.xml to drive d: on my stick. If I import this manually in the running PE, it works. But if I run "Add WLAN profile..." inside the Winbuilder project (Components/Core/1 System/Network/PENetwork), it doesn't load during boot or during manually starting PE Network.
It's no real problem, but it would be fine, to have it running without additional action.

2) At least using the WLAN-feature with PE network it seems to be necessary, to have "Basic/Shells/AddOns/ImDisk" checked in the Winbuilder project. Could be, that other features are concerned to. Maybe other users stumble about this. So it might be an idea, to point this out in the beginners tutorial.

3) I got some errors with some scripts, expanding/copying files from my source XP. The reason: the scripts expect compressed files (e.g. abc.dl_ instead of abc.dll) but my source contains some of them only (due to some slipped in WinUpdates) in uncompressed format.
If the scripts would recognise, whether a required file is compressed or not and act adequate, would be fine. Is a bit stupid, to first compress a file and then let the script uncompress it afterwards.

4) Most important question (for me :-):
Amalux mentioned in his tutorial a "ZX-Patch' update (available in downloads section -- 'Updates, fixes and new stuff here!'". Unfortunately I didn't find this update at that location.
A hint, where to get it or a link to a project, that includes this update would be very fine.

I hope, this post isn't to long.
Thanks in advance! Its really a great job, that you are doing here!

Helmut

#86 amalux

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 02:26 PM

Hi Helmut, thanks for the kinds words and nice report :)

Most of the issues you mention are easy to fix or, more likely, have already been fixed in subsequent updates. The problem is that the tutorial is out of date now due to lack of interest and a crappy new editor/forum etc. Anyway, post your log.html, profile.xml and anything else you think I might need and I'll see what I can do. Thanks again for your kind words.

:cheers:

#87 helmut47

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 11:51 PM

Hi Amalux,
thanks for your quick reply.
In the meantime I found the "ZX-Patch" in "ppApps_Base!.exe" and it works. Still I have to learn more about "xlink" to configure it to my needs.

Concerning the PE network: my WLAN-profile is copied to drive X: during boot of the USB-stick, but I have to load it manually. It's no big deal to do this. So I don't want to waste your time, but I would apreciate, if you have a look at my log file: http://otweb.de/log.7z

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#88 amalux

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:41 AM

OK, I looked and I don't see any of the errors you mention; everything looks great in your log.

As far as auto-loading the wlan profile, this feature is supposed to be implemented in v0.57 but has not been released yet. There is an interesting workaround described in post #6 here: http://reboot.pro/11125/ which I've been meaning to try but I have only occasional access to wireless enabled PC's so could be awhile before I can test.

Glad you got everything else working, let me know if you have any questions or need help.

:cheers:

#89 helmut47

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:13 PM

Thanks Amalux for checking the log file!

The procedure in http://reboot.pro/11125/ looks quite complicated for me. So I will stick on starting the WLAN manually.

I don't have any questions so far. Everything is working quite well.

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