19 replies to this topic

[Uneitohr]

Hi guys. I am in need of your assistance in choosing a sata to usb adapter that will support 2.5'' as well as 3.5'' under heavy usage: booting, copying huge amounts of data. I will need this to be portable, so no external power. Just USB. 

I was thinking of something like this http://cdn.shopify.c...pg?v=1404114351

 

The problem is that, on all adapters of this type have the power usb connector using only two wires: vcc and gnd which can only take 100mA out of the maximum of 500mA on the standard USB 2.0. Any drive, when under pressure will use more than the 500mA of an USB port, which is why two of these USB ports are required.

 

Now, based the writings found here https://community.wd...em-healthy/7709

 

Each USB port is capable of delivering 500mA @ 5Volts max and each port has built in semiconductor fuse that disconnects when external device power drain exceeds rated power output. This fuse will heal itself once the offending device disconnects. This fuse inherits tolerance of 5-10% of 500mA plus or minus. That means it could be disconnecting either on 450mA or 550mA of current drain.

 

 

Most of my bought adapters perform like the above: they draw more power, fuse kicks in and the device is longer usable for several minutes.

 

Any of you guys have a sollution to making an internal drive portable, without any external power supply? I would prefer an external adapter as opposed to an hdd enclosure because the enclosure is hard change the drive.

 

Thank you

Edited by Alexander Ceed, 19 January 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[Wonko the Sane]

You can use *any* adapter/case/converter as long as you use a "Y cable" with it.

A "generic" one providing a USB female would do (example):

http://www.amazon.co...WVGFMX0EX66EBMA

 

But this is only for 2.5" drives (that need only 5 V) and be aware that anyway some (older) 2.5" drives will need more than 2x500mA=1000mA=1A, there is nothing you can do for 3.5" as they need 12V as well and much more power, see also:

http://superuser.com...s-need-ac-power

 

Wonko

[Uneitohr]

some (older) 2.5" drives will need more than 2x500mA=1000mA=1A, there is nothing you can do for 3.5" as they need 12V as well and much more power

 

Correct, but two USB ports should produce 1A, right?

 

Now I'm thinking of something like the following: say I get one of those in my first post, and add the power cable to your USB Y charging cable, would that work? Should be 3x500mA ~ 1.5A. Or am I risking to blow something up?

 

Please check the diagram below, will it work this way? 

http://h.dropcanvas....led Diagram.png

Edited by Alexander Ceed, 19 January 2016 - 11:38 AM.

[Wonko the Sane]

Naah, no problem, if you have three USB ports on the PC that would be fine and give you (roughly) 3*0.5A, no risk of blowing anything, particularly if you use a USB 3.0 adapter, its circuits will be able to deal with USB 3.0 currents, which is at the minimum 2A@5V.

 

Wonko

[km2]

Use 3.5" case or add 5/12V PSU to a 2.5" case to support 3.5". Replace PSU with a 5V-to-12V step-up converter to make it portable.

 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I wouldn't be so sure about the step-up converter, even if it has a 100% efficiency (which it has not, more likely something between 80 and 90%), a typical 3.5" had disk needs 0.7 A @5V and 0.5A@12 V, so 0.7*5+0.5*12=9.5 W /5 V= 1.9 A, you will need at least to connect to 4 USB 2.x ports.

 

And peak current at spin up time might give anyway a higher spike. 

 

Wonko

[km2]

I wouldn't be so sure about the step-up converter...

 

It will be fine

[Uneitohr]

That is a good idea actually. Small, portable.

How much do you think such a battery will last before recharging? Say I plug in an 3.5 HDD, running at maximum capacity.

[km2]

Wonko estimates 1.9A @5V but this is a peak current needed only for start-up; then power draw drops by 75% and all we need is around 1.3A @5V.

 

Mi Power Bank 16000mAh after 93% conversion outputs a minimum of 10Ah so you could run a 3.5" HDD for over 7 hours (10/1.3). Mi's specs are actually reliable, unlike other products' claims like 10000000000mAh

 

I recommend a case with ASMedia ASM1053E chipset which supports 6Gbps SATA and UASP.

[Uneitohr]

So how would I put all this together? Computer USB > Battery > HDD ?

Using an USB Y-Splitter? Or the USB To Sata Adapter?

[km2]

No and no.

 

3.5" cases have a separate power supply socket to which you'd connect a step-up converter and 5V power bank. USB data cable goes directly to PC without a Y-splitter.

 

A USB To Sata Adapter is for 2.5" and usually has no 12V supply but it could be modified - similar to the 2.5" case mod I mentioned before.

[km2]

I just tried this incredibly cheap $1.4 converter with max 3A input current but it is unable to spin-up a 3.5” HDD. In 5-to-12V application max output current is below 0.5A.

[Wonko the Sane]

Wonko estimates 1.9A @5V but this is a peak current needed only for start-up; then power draw drops by 75% and all we need is around 1.3A @5V.

 

 

 

It is likely that the initial draw will trigger the USB "fuses", as said while it may work in some cases (quite a few motherboards do output more than 500 mA on a USB 2.0 port) and in some cases (low current spinup disk drives) I wouldn't be so sure about it.

With a "power bank" (or with a plain, powerful enough, 5 V power supply) it might work fine, though of course at this point it would be easier to have a "normal" adapter with AC power supply.

 

Wonko

[km2]

No need for a step-up converter with this 5V+12V power bank which can take the initial HDD power draw as well as jump start your car. Don't short the 12V output, there is no fuse and it can deliver up to 300A. An interesting review of a similar device. Safe 5V+12V power bank alternative for this project.

[Wonko the Sane]

Sure , so in order to have something "portable" you carry with you, instead of a small inexpensive power supply, a larger, heavier, rather expensive power bank.

 

Seriously now, it makes little sense to go "unplugged" from mains, if the scope is the "copy of huge amounts of data", as anyway *something* is needed to power the source device, the power bank could be a good replacement for an UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) which is something that is - if not mandatory - at least strongly recommended when dealing with the "copy of huge amounts of data".

 

Wonko

[km2]

Indeed there is hardly any use for expensive 3.5” portable, however a cheap 5V power bank for 2.5” makes sense because it does not drain laptop's power. Anyway this discussion has inspired me to acquire a 5V+12V power bank -- to jump start cars

[cdob]

Indeed there is hardly any use for expensive 3.5” portable, however a cheap 5V power bank for 2.5” makes sense because it does not drain laptop's power

Well, as for 2.5” devices: plug and pray. Hopefulluy it will work and dosn't destroy anything.
If you listen strange noises a couple of seconds: unplug the device. This combinaion won't work.
Yes, a 5V power is nice in a case of emergency.

As for 3.5” decives: it's a question of power supply.
Where do you live? Do you have power supply 24h each day?
There is sun shining at day light: Why do you need electrical power at day light?
Food coking is difficult without fossile energy or electrical energy.
If you have 24h power supply each day: use a power switch supporting 5V+12V to supply the 3.5” device.
If you have seldom power supply each day: a power battery to supply the 3.5” device is a wonderful idea
 

Anyway this discussion has inspired me to acquire a 5V+12V power bank -- to jump start cars

Thanks, this discussion made me aware of jump start cars batteries. However it's scares me to supply 200A, 300A, or 400A above small connectors: the copper may melt. Anyway in a case of emergeny, I may ignore technology knowledge and use such a device, with some safety knowledge in behind.

[Wonko the Sane]

And now, for no apparent reason  some actual (dangerous) use of a high power source of lots of amps and low voltage, reconditioning Ni-Cd batteries (maybe ):

http://www.instructa...-with-a-Welder/

 

Wonko

[Uneitohr]

Reviving this thread because I still have some questions.

 

This cheap Scythe adapter http://www.scythe-eu...-connect-3.htmlwas on the market 6 years ago. Yet It has an a power brick of 12V/5A. Nowadays most of the SATA-to-USB adapters are 12V/2A. Why? And I correct in assuming the Scythe adapter is better than, for example, this Logilink http://logilink.com/...eticlanguage=en ?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, as far as I know the only limitation of these adaptors are the power supply, as they can support any HDD size.

 

And, according to WD Black edition HDD specifications , there is no consumer HDD that goes beyond  ~11W consumption. Which on a 12V adapter would be ~1A. On HDD initialization, would probably go as high as 1.2/1.3A.

[Wonko the Sane]

And WHICH are the questions?

 

The Logilink has (like MOST of these adapters) a DUAL voltage power brick, typically they have 2 or 2.5 A @ 12V AND 2 or 2.5 A @ 5 V[1], while the Scythe one has a single voltage power brick 5A @12V (evidently it has something inside it making the 5 V out of the 12 V.

 

Wonko

 

 

[1] I have handy a no-name, el-cheapo one that has 3A @12V AND 3A@5V at least nominally.