21 replies to this topic

[jimrowland]

So I've been running Ubuntu in a VM environment for a while, seeing if I like it. I think it's something I'd like to have as the primary OS on my netbook, so I downloaded the latest Netbook Remix version (9.10). Problem is, I can't get the thing to boot from my USB stick.

Before we get into any lessons on how to set up a USB stick to be bootable, and how to adjust the BIOS's boot priority... let me say that I've used this exact stick and this exact laptop in the past just fine. When my netbook came home from the store with WinXP on it, I created a Live USB using unetbootin v3.56 and made the stick bootable with a gparted-live ISO. I used this to boot from the stick and partition my drive in half so that I could load the Win7 RC onto the other partition. Everything worked great then. I blew away those partitions and went back to a single partition when I loaded up my full Win7 OS a few weeks ago.

I'm wondering if it's possible that Win7 does something special with the bootloader to prevent this stick from being recognized? I know that sounds kinda far fetched, but I have a vague sense of having read this somewhere, but I can't find anything along those lines now.

Just to be sure, I went into the BIOS and took out both the CD and the HDD from the boot sequence, so the only thing in there was the "removable device". I got a "please insert an operating system" type message.

When I started this process, the stick was still in "LiveUSB" mode with the gparted OS - however, I didn't test it to see if it would have booted from it. I just assumed that it would have, since that was the last time I used this USB stick.

Here's what I've tried so far:
+ formatted the stick via the Windows Explorer right-click-format routine.
+ re-ran unetbootin with the Remix.ISO (no joy)
+ re-formatted, downloaded the latest unetbootin version (v3.77), and tried the Remix.ISO again (still nothing)
+ re-formatted, tried using the unetbootin "on board installer" for Ubuntu 9.10 (where it goes out and fetches the image instead of using a .ISO). Still no joy.

Any ideas on where I might be going wrong? Is my idea on the Win7-bootloader-blocking-the-stick idea valid at all? My USB stick /does/ go blinky-blinky a few times when the computer is booting.

I just ran a test to prove that it wasn't the USB stick causing problems... I just booted my wife's desktop from it, and it booted into the LiveUSB environment just fine. The desktop is a new HP system that came loaded with Win7 Home 64bit OEM. So, it's not purely a Windows 7 thing preventing the booting from sitck.

I also tested my laptop's boot priority by using a physical CD, and it booted from CD just fine.

a few more details on the netbook... it is an Asus EeePC 1000HE model with 1G ram. I upgraded from the OEM WinXP to Win7 Home Premium off of a "Family Pack" that we bought to upgrade the wife's and kids' laptops. Figured since we still had 1 license left, I would upgrade mine as well.

I'd still like to dual-boot this with Ubuntu as the primary OS, but I need to get the stick working, so if anyone has any great ideas, I'm all ears. I'd just create a LiveCD, but I'll be damned if I can find any blank CDs just laying around... that's almost as archaic as a floppy these days. Since I don't do a lot of playing, I don't really have a need for blank CDs. :/

This laptop /used to/ boot from the stick back when it had WinXP, but will not boot from the same stick now that I've reloaded the laptop with Win7.

[Wonko the Sane]

Any ideas on where I might be going wrong?

Yes.
http://homepages.tes...no-answers.html

Is my idea on the Win7-bootloader-blocking-the-stick idea valid at all?

To put it bluntly, NO.

From what you report you simply have a "botched" MBR or NO partition Active.

How and why this happened is of course unknown.

Use HDhacker (or any similar tool) to extract a copy of the MBR (first sector of the PhysicalDrive), compress it in a .zip and post it as attachment.
http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/



Wonko

[jimrowland]

Yes.

Okay, you got me on that one. :^) I usually try not to be the stupid newbie poster. lol

From what you report you simply have a "botched" MBR or NO partition Active.

I wouldn't be surprised by the botched MBR... I used the Win7 installer to rearrange the partitions and go back to a single partition during the install process. As far as an "active partition", I am assuming that you mean on the usb stick? I did do a DISKPART and ensured that the partition was active on the usb drive. Also, this usb stick booted fine on another system.

Use HDhacker (or any similar tool) to extract a copy of the MBR (first sector of the PhysicalDrive), compress it in a .zip and post it as attachment.

I'm not sure if I did this right... I used HDhacker, selected "Physical Drive (MBR)" with disk0 (only 1 hdd in the netbook), and then clicked "Read sector from disk"... at which point there was some gibberish in the window. From there I clicked "Save sector to file", which created the dat file that I am uploading now.

So now... any ideas? (you can select either yes or no). :^) Or, more speficially: how do I fix my MBR so that I can boot from my USB? Thanks in advance for any answers, smartass or not.

Attached Files

•  MBR_HardDisk0.zip   579bytes   331 downloads

[Wonko the Sane]

Okay, you got me on that one. :^)

Yep, I tend to get lots of people with this one.

Also, this usb stick booted fine on another system.

This is stranger, but stil it is possible that one stick is "compatible" with one system and it is not on another one, it actually happens all the time, unless the USB devicve MBR has a number of "universal" characteristics.

I'm not sure if I did this right... I used HDhacker, selected "Physical Drive (MBR)" with disk0 (only 1 hdd in the netbook), and then clicked "Read sector from disk"... at which point there was some gibberish in the window. From there I clicked "Save sector to file", which created the dat file that I am uploading now.

Well, you hard disk 0 is your internal hard disk, I meant the MBR of the USB stick, it will be physicalDrive #1 when you connect it to a PC with one internal hard disk.

The Windows 7 (or anything on the internal hard disk) cannot affect the bootability of a USB stick, as it is simply not loaded during boot if "booting from USB" is enabled in the BIOS.
This latter may actually be the culprit, on some BIOSes changing a setting seemingly unrelated with USB booting may prevent from booting from USB (as an example - but usually on desktop - the "legacy keyboard support" has been reported to be cause of grief).

As well some BIOSes that allow the press of a hot-key (usually F11 or F12) while booting to boot from USB may fail booting from USB while setting the "normal" booting order to "USB first, then HD" works.

Try posting the MBR of the USB stick.



Wonko

[jimrowland]

This is stranger, but stil it is possible that one stick is "compatible" with one system and it is not on another one, it actually happens all the time, unless the USB devicve MBR has a number of "universal" characteristics.

Ahhhh... but, as stated in the OP, I used this exact usb drive in this exact laptop to boot into a liveUSB gparted environment. That was back when this laptop was loaded up with the OEM WinXP that it came with, and I wanted to partition and dual-boot the Win7 RC. That all worked great, so this stick is definitely compatible with this laptop. The only thing that changed is that I loaded the full Win7 and that I reformatted the usb stick to use the newer unetbootin app.

Here is the MBR report from the usb drive. I appreciate your continued looking at this. MBRs and active partitions are definitely not my strong suit.

Attached Files

•  MBR_HardDisk1.zip   551bytes   322 downloads

[Wonko the Sane]

MBRs and active partitions are definitely not my strong suit.

They'll probably become one, after we've finished here.

The MBR you posted has a number of "non-kosher" characteristics.

The partition type is 0B (CHS mapped) and the start is not on a Cylinder/head boundary (given the nowadays default 255/63 H/S geometry with which it is probably detected by BIOS).

A possible solution worth a try is to re-partition it (and obviously later re-formatting it) with the values shown.

The attached screenshot is from my MBRBATCH utility, which I have no idea if it's working on 7.
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3191

You can use a hex editor (I do recommend TinyHexer with my Structure Viewers)
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8734

or a partition table editor, like PTEDIT32 or beeblebrox:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...e-5.html&s=

You will lose ANY data now on the stick so make a backup if there is any good data.

It is also possible that just changing the partition type from 0B to 0C (LBA mapped) solves the booting problem.

All in all I would start from scratch and re-partition/re-format the stick with RMPREPUSB:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=95

or any of the other "last generation" utilities:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=9460

Wonko

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[Wonko the Sane]

Post blanked as a retaliation for the deletion of maanu's post.

Wonko

[maanu]

post removed . sorry

[jimrowland]

I appreciate the continued help. I've read your instructional post a good 3 or 4 times, trying to interpret some of it into idiot speak. I don't think you were saying to run all of those utilities, so here's what I've accomplished so far:

All in all I would start from scratch and re-partition/re-format the stick with RMPREPUSB:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=95

I ran RMPrepUSB, with the attached screenshot showing what my settings were.

I then ran HDHacker against it to see what it looked like, but I don't think it was looking right. (see attached zip, with the "x2" file).

However, I thought maybe that the RMPrepUSB simply prepped the USB back to a "known good" partition. Perhaps I actually needed to load a MBR onto it. (??) So, I ran the unetbootin utility again with the same gparted-live ISO that I started this whole adventure with. Obviously, I'm only guessing here, but I was grasping at straws that maybe this "loads an MBR".

Once unetbootin did it's thing, I ran HDHacker again (see attached zip, with the "x3" file). Neither of the dumps looked "good", but all 3 of them look different from each other, so obviously something is changing. Alas, the stick still does not boot. It also no longer boots my wife's desktop, which it did previously (with the configuration that is shown in the HDHacker dump up a few posts).

Do you have any further suggestions for me to try? Wait, sorry, that's a yes or no question... How about: What's the next step you suggest I take?

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Attached Files

•  MBR_HardDisk1x2_3.zip   1.09KB   288 downloads

[Wonko the Sane]

Both the "x2" and "x3" have identical DATA to the proposed "manual" solution (then it is "right" ).

"x2" uses (I seem to remember - haven't checked properly) 2K/NT/XP MBR CODE.
"x3" uses a "different" MBR CODE, maybe Syslinux? <-since just the CODE changed, it means that Unetbootin is working allrigth, and the problem is somehow in the data.

It is possible that those motherboards require CHS access, ot that however the BIOSes detect them strangely.

Things to try (leave for the moment Unetbootin aside):

Run RMPREPUSB and CLEAN drive. (just to make sure any old thing doesn't get in the way)

Re-run RMPREPUSB, this time (different attempts):

• Re-run RMPREPUSB, as you did
• Re-run RMPREPUSB, as you did, then use beeblebrox to change partitin type from 0C to 0B
• Re-run RMPREPUSB, besides the FAT32 radio button, check also the Boot as HDD (C: 2PTNS) checkbutton
• Re-run RMPREPUSB, besides the FAT32 radio button, check also the Boot as HDD (C: 2PTNS) AND the Force use of LBA calls checkbutton

Do the above attempts in reverse order, last one should be the "most" compatible.

After each run of RMPREPUSB, disconnect the stick and re-insert it, then add to the root just the appropriate loader (depending on which radio button you select in the OS choice):

• if WinPe2 or 3/Win7->BOOTMGR
• if DOS->IO.SYS
• if Xp/Winpe 1->NTLDR
• if Freedos->kernel .sys

You should be able to boot the loader (which then will throw an error as it won't find the other eneded files, but that's allright, as we are trying to troubleshoot the initial booting phase).

About the "stick does not boot", can you describe what you see when it fails?

Available options :

• an error message <- which exact one?
• a blinking cursor/underscore in top left of screen
• a blinking or static "j" or "g" in top left of screen
• a completely blank screen

Wonko

[jimrowland]

After each run of RMPREPUSB, disconnect the stick and re-insert it, then add to the root just the appropriate loader (depending on which radio button you select in the OS choice):

• if WinPe2 or 3/Win7->BOOTMGR
• if DOS->IO.SYS
• if Xp/Winpe 1->NTLDR
• if Freedos->kernel .sys

I'm not sure I understand what "add the appropriate loader to the root" means. Where do I get the loader from?

About the "stick does not boot", can you describe what you see when it fails?

I don't get an error, it just skips the stick and goes straight into Windows.

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm not sure I understand what "add the appropriate loader to the root" means. Where do I get the loader from?

From your OS.
You can copy the file from an installed OS or from the Install CD and you copy it to the stick.
So, if you check Vista/7 formatting, add BOOTMGR, if you are working with 2K/Xp, add NTLDR.

I don't get an error, it just skips the stick and goes straight into Windows.

Hmm, this seems more like a BIOS configuration problem.
I mean, if the USB port is given priority it should at least attempt booting from it and throw an error (either coming from BIOS or from MBR or from bootsector of the stick).
Try disabling all other devices and give USB the boot priority.
You should get some kind of error.
Othere things to check:
Disconnect any USB hub and any other USB devie you may have connected (leave keyboard and mouse, if USB, they should not be a problem).
If it's a desktop, use one of the USB ports in the back, not one of those in the front.

Wonko

[jimrowland]

From your OS.
You can copy the file from an installed OS or from the Install CD and you copy it to the stick.
So, if you check Vista/7 formatting, add BOOTMGR, if you are working with 2K/Xp, add NTLDR.

I'm running Win7, and a search of "bootmgr" turned up about 150 results... however, the only file without an extension was c:\windows\boot\PCAT\bootmgr, so unless you say otherwise, that's what I'm going with as the loader.

Hmm, this seems more like a BIOS configuration problem.
I mean, if the USB port is given priority it should at least attempt booting from it and throw an error (either coming from BIOS or from MBR or from bootsector of the stick).
Try disabling all other devices and give USB the boot priority.
You should get some kind of error.

That was one of the first things I tried before coming here. When I disable all other devices and boot from the stick, I get the following:
Reboot and select proper boot device.
or Insert Boot Media in selected Boot device and press a key.
(pressing a key results in a repeat of the message)

Remember, this same stick worked in this same laptop when it had XP loaded. One I loaded Win7, it stopped booting from the stick.

Othere things to check:
Disconnect any USB hub and any other USB devie you may have connected (leave keyboard and mouse, if USB, they should not be a problem).
If it's a desktop, use one of the USB ports in the back, not one of those in the front

Nope, just a mini (netbook) with 2 USB ports - no hub in use.

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm running Win7, and a search of "bootmgr" turned up about 150 results... however, the only file without an extension was c:\windows\boot\PCAT\bootmgr, so unless you say otherwise, that's what I'm going with as the loader.

You miss some basics, maybe:
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/
(just read "windows 7" instead of Vista on that site)

However, it's allright, don't copy anything to the root, you should get a message like "BOOTMGR is missing" or "NTLDR is missing", this would be enough to make sure that the booting chain:
BIOS->MBR->bootsector->loader
is working for the first part, i.e.:
BIOS->MBR->bootsector

That was one of the first things I tried before coming here. When I disable all other devices and boot from the stick, I get the following:
Reboot and select proper boot device.
or Insert Boot Media in selected Boot device and press a key.
(pressing a key results in a repeat of the message)

Good, that is coming from the BIOS which is not recognizing the device as bootable.

Remember, this same stick worked in this same laptop when it had XP loaded. One I loaded Win7, it stopped booting from the stick.

Remember, you came here because it stopped working, you have to trust me that THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHATEVER OS IS INSTALLED!

Come on, use some logic, if the first device that is accessed is the USB stick how can an OS that is installed on an internal hard disk that is NOT accessed during booting make any difference?

The only four reasons that may cause the current not-booting status can be:

• a failing stick
• a failing USB bus of the PC
• a change in BIOS (either settings or a BIOS update)
• a modified MBR/bootsector of the stick

Since I am an optimist, I presume that the first two are NOT the case. , to test them, you need another PC (your wife's is OK , and another USB stick).
Do review attentively BIOS settings, there may be some item seemingly unrelated that causes this behaviour.

Nope, just a mini (netbook) with 2 USB ports - no hub in use.

Good.

Wonko

[jimrowland]

I haven't been home from work in almost 2 days, so I haven't had a chance to try your suggestions. For now, I will read up on the Win7 portion at http://www.multibooters.co.uk/.

Remember, this same stick worked in this same laptop when it had XP loaded. One I loaded Win7, it stopped booting from the stick.

Remember, you came here because it stopped working, you have to trust me that THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHATEVER OS IS INSTALLED!

I understand that... my comment was more geared toward your other comment of "Hmm, this seems more like a BIOS configuration problem." I was just saying that the only thing that changed in the equation was a load of Win7. Same pc, same stick, worked 1 week ago. Loaded W7, tried it all again, fail. Put stick in wife's PC, it worked, proving that the stick was still good.

Come on, use some logic, if the first device that is accessed is the USB stick how can an OS that is installed on an internal hard disk that is NOT accessed during booting make any difference?

That was my original question... is it possible that installing Win7 did something to jack all of this up? I cannot logically see how that would be possible, but it is the only part of the equation that is different.

The /only/ thing that I can come up with that might make sense is that unetbootin does not work under Win7... or, possibly, Win7 is preventing me from doing something to this stick that needs to be done. Again, a very far fetched idea, but I can't get it out of my head that Win7 is the only difference. I don't have an XP load anymore to try creating my boot stick from.


Okay, off to read http://www.multibooters.co.uk/. Hopefully, I'll have some time over the weekend to try playing with this some more. I appreciate your continued help.

(edited for grammar)

[steve6375]

Hi

Lets start from basics

Logically Win7 cannot stop the BIOS booting to a usb pen from a cold boot.


1. Make a FreeDos bootable stick using RMPrepUSB v2.0.62 and the FreeDos files that come in the download - use 2PTN and LBA options and FAT16 or FAT32
2. Check it boots on your wifes PC
3. Try it on your eeePC - does the light on the USB pen go blinky-blink on startup - Y or N ?
4. Does it try to boot at all? Any message?
5. Try the other USB port on the eeePC

Are you sure that you used the same stick to boot successfully before (or maybe a similar one that you had around but not that actual one?).


What size is the stick? Can you try another stick?

If you really suspect Win7 of not working ...

One thing that may help is to make an Administrator account on your win 7 PC then run your formatting utility. Run a cmd prompt as an admin and type NET USER ADMINISTRATOR /ACTIVE:YES - then logout and login as administrator and try the utilities.

HTH

[jimrowland]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this - it's been a VERY LONG week at work. Let's see if I can pick up where this left off....

1. Make a FreeDos bootable stick using RMPrepUSB v2.0.62 and the FreeDos files that come in the download - use 2PTN and LBA options and FAT16 or FAT32

I tried this and it still didn't work in my eeePC.

2. Check it boots on your wifes PC

Yep - boots her PC just fine.

3. Try it on your eeePC - does the light on the USB pen go blinky-blink on startup - Y or N ?

Yes, the lights on the stick blink during boot.

4. Does it try to boot at all? Any message?

No messages, it just goes straight into Windows.

5. Try the other USB port on the eeePC

Tried all 3 - same results.

Are you sure that you used the same stick to boot successfully before (or maybe a similar one that you had around but not that actual one?).

It was this same exact stick.

What size is the stick? Can you try another stick?

It's a 4GB stick. I found an 8GB stick gathering dust in the bottom of one of my drawers... tried that too, with the same results. This 8GB stick also DOES boot my wife's PC.

I reformatted both USB sticks, and loaded a couple of different ISO images using unetbootin (I tried doing this from both the PC and the netbook - results did not vary, no matter the combination of computer+stick). In all cases, the PC booted from both sticks, the netbook did not.

Attached is a photograph of the netbook boot screen, if this helps with interpreting anything. Notice the line "USB Device(s):" That's what it looks like with the stick plugged in. If I unplug the stick, that line is blank. If I plug in my external CD, that line indicates "ASUS USB CD/DVD". If I plug in a Keyboard, that line indicates "USB Keyboard". If I plug in all 3 (stick, cd, kb), all 3 devices are listed.

Now note the last line: "Device #01" looks like it is not finding the device. If I have the stick in, this screen pauses for about 5 seconds (allowing me to take a picture) before going blank and loading windows. If I take the stick out, then this screen flashes by too fast for me to even see any of it. If I have a bootable LiveCD in the external CD drive, this screen still flashes by too quick to see, but the eeePC will boot into the LiveCD just fine.

Maybe some of that means something. ??

Also: I tried to change 1 setting in the BIOS. Under the "Boot" menu, there is a "Boot Settings Configuration" option. Under that, there are 2 settings: "Quick Boot" and "Quiet Boot". Both of these were set to "Enable", so I changed them to "Disable". That did not change anything, although I was able to see the bios screen (in photo) whereas I never saw that previously. (fwiw, these were both set to "enable" when the netbook used to boot successfully from USB stick).

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[Wonko the Sane]

Which BOOT priority settings do you have in BIOS?

Are you using the Esc key to choose the boot device? like here:
http://www.zoomingin...-boot-eeePC.jpg

If the above is allright, we have a problem.

We have good reasons to claim that several thousands of eeepc boot allright with RMPREPUSB or similar tools, so there must be a problem:

• botched settings in BIOS
• botched BIOS <- BTW you have BIOS 0607, there are 4 (FOUR!) later releases , right now it's 1104
• botched USB ports/bus

Wonko

[jimrowland]

Are you using the Esc key to choose the boot device? like here:

Well.... holy escape key, batman. I push ESC, and I get a boot menu. listed right there, front and center, is the usb stick, and I select it, and it boots into the LiveUSB environment just fine.

So... that solves my problem. Leaves me with 2 questions. Answers to these questions are now a low priority since I have a solution.

1. Why is there no message saying "push ESC to get a boot menu"
2. Why did I not have to do that before? When this worked (before loading Win7 - yeah, yeah, that has nothing to do with any of this), it just booted right into the USB without any manual intervention. I also (currently, 2 hours ago) boot straight into the CD LiveCD environment without any manual intervention, assuming that a bootable CD is in the drive. I guess that begs a third question: 3. Why do I not have to push ESC to boot from CD?

Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm". Thanks for that. I must now go find some drywall patch to fix all the holes I've put into my walls with my head.

[Wonko the Sane]

Well.... holy escape key, batman. I push ESC, and I get a boot menu. listed right there, front and center, is the usb stick, and I select it, and it boots into the LiveUSB environment just fine.

http://greatsayings....bin-quotes.html

The batcomputer is none too frisky today, Batman.

Remember Robin, always look both ways.

Whatever is fair in love and war is also fair in crimefighting boot troubleshooting.

So... that solves my problem. Leaves me with 2 questions. Answers to these questions are now a low priority since I have a solution.
1. ....
2. ....
3. ....

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots three questions or only five two?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

1. Why is there no message saying "push ESC to get a boot menu"

Why elephants don't fly?
Hint:
http://www.boot-land...?...=2425&st=18

2. Why did I not have to do that before? When this worked (before loading Win7 - yeah, yeah, that has nothing to do with any of this), it just booted right into the USB without any manual intervention. I also (currently, 2 hours ago) boot straight into the CD LiveCD environment without any manual intervention, assuming that a bootable CD is in the drive.

Which BOOT priority settings do you have in BIOS?

3. Why do I not have to push ESC to boot from CD?

Which BOOT priority settings do you have in BIOS?

Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm". Thanks for that. I must now go find some drywall patch to fix all the holes I've put into my walls with my head.

What makes me go "hmmm" is the picture I see in my crystal ball



Good luck for your DIY repairs.



Wonko

[jimrowland]

Which BOOT priority settings do you have in BIOS?

1. USB
2. CD
3. HDD

[Wonko the Sane]

1. USB
2. CD
3. HDD

Now, that's queer.

Wonko