9 replies to this topic

[was_jaclaz]

It seems like this is not very clear, so just in case :
http://vistape.net/vistape-faq.html

Question: Can i make VistaPE x64?
Answer: No and it will be possible only when we will be have many x64 programs and drivers. You can take full access to all versions of Microsoft Windows (x86 and x64) with current x86 version. You can build VistaPE x86 at any x64 hosts, but you must have installed WAIK in your system.

jaclaz

[loox]

Oh my God, I am about to get flamed big time. But I am one of those people to whom this is not very clear. not clear at all.

I have Vista 64bit as my OS. Can I tell you what is confusing me and maybe you can help me and others with this OS:

1. I get that at least with VistaPE 11, that when using my 64bit Vista to build my ISO, I cannot do it at all unless I have WAIK installed.
2. I also get that I am lazy and don't want to install another OS just for the purpose of making the PE ISO, especially when I intend to update it so often with antivirus definitions and, well, just for fun. but if I wanted an extra 32bit OS on my hard drives, then I would hardly have the need for the disk as I oculd just install my Kaspersky, Acronis, etc... on the 32bit OS and troubleshoot from there.
3. Finally, I get that if I use the WAIK as a source, then my PE build will be severely limited... I very much would like all of the nice bells and whistles afforded by using the DVD as a source (note, I have 32 bit Vista and 64 bit Vista Ultimate disks).

so... holding out hope, I remember reading somewhere (Active@'s site, I think), that with Winbuilder v2, I can get good 64 bit compatibility, as you mentioned.

Finally,
4. I know that pointing to the WAIK folder would work, but not on my 64 bit OS. and I understand that I have to install the WAIK outright. I have done this and now WAIK is part of my 64 bit OS and the files now reside in my programs directory.

.... so now for what I *don't* get:

A. You say I can build the PE ISO if I install WAIK to my 64 bit OS, and I get that. BUT do you mean that once I install WAIK, I can then use the DVD as a source and get all of the build options that come with that, or do you mean that even after installing it, I am still stuck with the WAIK limitations?

and

B. Even after WAIK is installed, and I point winbuilder to the directory, I get the same error I used to get without WAIK installed: "ERROR: 64 bit OS detected, WAIK must be installed". BUT it already is!?!? help!!!

Basically, I can break my personal dilemma down to this: If installing WAIK will get me full PE functionality, then I will proceed to troubleshoot the error I am getting. If not, then at this point I'd rather not troubleshoot the error and bite the bullet and build a 32bit OS from which to build my ISO.

Thanks and again, sorry for being so dense.

[pecd.net]

Well, just a quick answer:

You can use Vista64 to build a VistaPE ISO, but:

- you have to install WAIK
- you have to point the preconfig script to the right waik folder (only tested with VistaPE 12RC1)
- you need a Vista32 DVD (or the server 2008 trial which you can get free from MS) as source if you do not want the WAIK limitations.

In short: no Vista32DVD (or server2008 trial files) - no full VistaPE, regardless if you build under vista 32 or Vista 64

[loox]

Well that's wonderful!!!

Thanks for that bit of good news, ctmag.

As my Vista came with two disks (32-bit, and 64-bit) I do indeed have a Vista x86 32-bit DVD.

So, I guess my final question becomes.... in Winbuilder you are provided with only three Fields for folder paths:

Two of the three don't count as they are for telling Winbuilder where you want your PEBuild folder to be and finally where you want your ISO to be.

With respect to the SOURCE location, we have only one slot: either point Winbuilder to the WAIK or to the DVD.

So
1. am I correct in assuming that with the WAIK installed, I no longer *need* to point Winbuilder to that folder and I now point it to Vista x86 DVD (which would explain the error I keep getting by pointing WB to the the WAIK folder)?
or
2. is there an option somewhere to tell Winbuilder that there is a 32 bit DVD in my drive? If so, I don't see it.

Clearly, you wouldn't have told me to use the 32bit dvd if I never point to it/use it, which leads me to believe that I do *not* use the WAIK as my Source. I simply install WAIK and then point to the DVD as my source. I am pretty sure I am right, and am happy to experiment. I thought I'd just get this answer "on the record" to really settle the issue once and for all.

[personally, I am so grateful for everyone whose hardwork has gone into these fora and tutorials. I have been on the fringe of doing what i want for months now, and have learned alot. Only I can't do it until I resolve this 64bit host OS issue. I have printed out tutorial after tutorial, as well as entire threads. And while I enjoyed the fun of discovering and learning more about the entire boot-disk process, and love making multiboot disks, etc. etc... enough is enough. Until now, I have always had to go the linux route or the commerical software route (EZboot). Fun and Good, but VistaPE is what I am after. I ultimately want a single boot Active@-type environement where I can use firefox or mplayer while I restore my C: drive with Acronis, root out spyware, with Kaspersky, and install other appz via .msi as I need them, etc... I am tired of looking waiting 1 hour in front of a blue screen while I do a restore. And for that I need VistaPE.. so I am grateful to you and jaclaz for helping me put this 64bit HOST OS issue to bed once and for all.

[pecd.net]

in the WB sources tab you select your vista32 dvd or server 2008 dvd (or files on HD)

in the preconfig script you have to set the path to the waik so VistaPE find imagex for loading the boot.wim and install.wim files from the vista dvd

make sure you have a real vista dvd not an oem one. Some OEM disk include multilangauge vista version and extras (tools, drivers and so on) and they will not work for building VistaPE. You will get some "file not found" error with such disc, often with a file in a path with ...\JP-JP\... in this case use the server2008 trial as mentioned in my signature

[Brito]

Don't know if it helps, but I use Ubuntu x64 as my main OS and create VistaPE from an emulated Vista PC running from Virtual Box (freeware).

It works quite fast if you give at least 1Gb worth of RAM and you get all the possible features from x86 just the same.

This also helps to keep a clean and ready to work environment just for VistaPE.

[loox]

Thanks, guys.

I am a bit embarrased to admit that I actually purchased a retail box version of Vista so my disk is the real deal... although I always assumed it was multilanguage, so I'll report back if it doesn't work. If not, it seems then that the Server 2003 d/l would be a safe bet.

And Nuno, I think you've managed to glean my entire Raison d'Etre. The whole point for me for wanting a single boot AIO solution for me as well as all the troubleshooting I do for friends/family is so that I have a safe, clean environment to work in. As such, I demand no less for my main OS. Which is why I learned about this project, linux solutions, multi-boot on DVD (still haven't quite got my head entirely around how make a perfect USB solution, but I'm having fun trying. Heck, its why I set up my first Dual Boot machine in the first place. I mean, we are talking about a years-long quest here. One that you guys have led the way on!

Using your example, I like and understand virtual machines. And I vetted and love Sun's virtualbox. Having said that, and this may be anal retentive, but I simply don't want it on my OS. I know that I can trust it, but still, drivers are installed, registry entries that confuse me and files and folders that appear similar to rootkits all make for a system less tidy than I would like. I guess to some extent I shouldn't be surprised that others in this forum share the same feelings. But that is why I am being stubborn wrt not installing a vitrual 32bit OS via virtual machine. In fact, I have actually just started taking linux seriously enough to give it its own permanent residence on my HDD for precisely this reason, to use vitrualbox and run Windows to make this disk. Of course, this meant relearning *nix operating systems, as I haven't used them since grad school. Unfortunately, linux is much more complicated now than when I used a SUN workstation back in the 1995 and it is slow going. I just now figured out what/who su is! and don't get me started on libraries, dependencies, and repositories. I just now managed to get ATI drivers recognized (for all the good it did)... plus its fun. Soooo many distros. Long story short, you are one step ahead of me: I am going for the same solution as you. PE enviorn to work in and linux partition with Virtualbox to make PE environ. Very tidy!

Personal note: (a bit humbled by your reply as well, getting PE advice from you guys is a bit like learning how to swing a bat from DiMaggio... so allow me to compliment you with the respect and even awe for the work you have done here)

[was_jaclaz]

is a bit like learning how to swing a bat

as long as the bat is not harmed, swinging bats is a nice pastime, but not difficult at all to learn:





jaclaz

[loox]

Okay.... so far so good!
Next question:

I am running a dual-boot machine with second partition for creating the PE disk (lets call it "Builder Host" OS). On my Builder Host OS, I have set up a Virtualbox running Vista 32-bit for making the PE ISO ("Guest OS").

First and foremost: I read somewhere on these fora that Winbuilder had not been tested with a 64-bit Builder Host since 12b2. I can confirm that it works as well as it should! By that I mean Winbuilder 12 RC1 does what it is intended to do flawlessly from a Vista 64-bit Builder Host OS with WAIK installed and a 32-bit Source. [See Footnote below for how to ensure the scripts behave as well as Winbuilder]

Now for my question::
Since I am building the ISO on the Guest OS, should I block any "finalize" scipt that wants to test my build in a VM, as that would result in my Guest OS becoming a Host OS for a Further-embedded 2nd Guest OS? IT sounds too much like facing two mirrors towards each other... image within image within image... and I feel like Kramer when he is in the phonebooth at 1st and 1st!

Put another way: as set up, Winbuilder 12 RC1 will test your build in a Virtual Machine before finalizing the ISO. But I already have Winbuilder running in a VM on my in the first place. Hence, these scripts will result in a Virtual Machine within a Virtual Machine... and just the thought of that sounds bizarre to me. So before I send my computer down some vitrual rabbit hole, I have disabled it. However, I'd like the option to preview my build, but first want to know if this is acceptable practice, and Nuno's screenshots would seem to suggest that it is.


Thanks for the levity jaclaz, although for some of us, hitting a ball with a bat *is* hard. So I guess everything is relative. For example, I've passed my Physics Qualifier Exam, Two state BAR exams, and the Patent Bar. But to me, *this* is very hard. Not hard in the sense that I can't edit a WIM and get the functionality I want. In that sense, this stuff is not hard... just time consuming. What's hard is finding a way to make it easy to re-build (also I have no idea how to edit a shell to make it look nice); I think winbuilder can do that for me, only now I realize that I need to help winbuilder help me. For example, it does work perfectly on a 64-bit Build Host OS, but many scripts are not set up properly... so now that I have proven to myself I can do it (with everyone's help, of course)... to do it easily, it should be build using a 32-bit Host OS.
-loox

Footnote (should probably be in its own thread):
Winbuilder works fine with 64-bit Vista as Build Host OS:
PROVIDED THAT you ensure the scripts you include (as opposed to Winbuilder itself) account for at least the following three things: 32-bit drivers, 64-bit Vista's permissions, and its file structure. Specifically:

A: don't let 64-bit drivers get mixed in:
All scrpits that pull drivers from the Builder Host OS will be pulling 64-bit drivers. These have to be replaced by the corresponding 32-bit drivers. For example, Acronis uses snapman.sys, which itself changes with each build. Left to its own devices, Acronis scripts will use your 64-bit snapman.sys (and 4 other files). This will not work in your 32-bit VistaPE and so you must adjust the script, your build folder, or both.
B. Vista's Permissions:
UAC is a real issue here. Sometimes running WinBuilder as an Administrator is not good enough. Acronis is a good example again: it wants to take your license info from the registry. When run as an Admin, Winbuilder won't find those registry entries unless you installed Acronis as an Admin. So the script needs to be adjusted to look to the Current User's reg. keys and not the Local Machine keys. i.e., change "HKLM" to "HKCU" or, better yet, copy them right into the script.
and
C. Vista's Windows On Windows moves files to directories with different names than their 32-bit counterparts... OR, even if named the same, the path to get to a directory may no be different (e.g. User's Settings for a program is blocked via Documents and Settings and now must either bypass directly to "Users...App Data... Microsoft/Windows/Roaming" or via the "ProgramData" directory):
Many scripts pull files from the programs directory and/or the user's directory. If Vista 64 is your Build OS, then any scripts that look for files in the "Program Files" directory or via "Documents and Settings" likely will not get the files and fail. This is because 32-bit programs (and almost all are) are run via WOW and put into the "Program Files (x86)" directory. Again, the older Acronis scripts (such as for Echo 9.5 that I use) provide a great example of this. Those scripts need to be edited to use generic paths (e.g. %ProgramFiles%, %WinDir%, %SystemDir%, etc...) or else point to the proper directories by name.

[NOTE: While Acronis was used here as an example, please understand that this was just an example based on Acronis' official WinPE solution, which is to use the official BartPE script as modified per Acronis' instructions. It is Acronis' workaround to their own previous workaround that does not work with 64 Vista as your Build Host OS. From what I can tell any and all recent Acronis scripts written by user ctmag account for all of the above issues. When/if he gets around to Acronis TI Echo Workstation 9.5 build 8163, I suggest using that. But again, it was just an example]

[Crextis]

- you have to point the preconfig script to the right waik folder (only tested with VistaPE 12RC1)

How do you do that or what text do you edit in the preconfig script?