16 replies to this topic

[AceInfinity]

I figured if anyone could solve this issue, it would have to be a member from Reboot as this is the community's main focus; Windows Booting So i'll post this here.


I'm fixing my parent's computer as they told me it was starting to run a bit slow, so when I got it I noticed he had AVG on there (Free version).

Here's what I was going to do:
[ ]- Replace AVG with MSE
[ ]- Check defrag percentage and do a full defrag if needed
[x]- Clear out temp files
[x]- Reduce startup programs
[ ]- Download and Run CCleaner
[ ]- Run SFC /ScanNow
[x]- Disable a few of the Visual Effects


But After I cleared out the temp files, and turned off some visual effects, and disabled some startup programs, I went ahead to uninstall AVG and started running SFC (System File Checker)

SFC got to about 85% verification when all of a sudden boom! BSOD for a split second, and crash which caused the computer to reboot. But while it was starting up I got a friendly message:

BootMgr is missing Press Ctrl + Alt + Del to restart

So I did that, again same message. Then through reading online, i've went through various BIOS options, set CD-Rom device to first boot priority so that I could boot up the Vista Installation disk to do a repair from the options given (This is a Vista x64 Home Premium machine).

I've tried:

bootrec /fixmbr

bootrec /fixboot

And for some reason:

bootrec /rebuildbcd

Always returns to me "0 Windows installations found, Completed successfully" but that's only because it didn't find anything to fix i'm assuming. It doesn't make sense. I've booted up the repair disk about 3 times, and finally Vista shows up on the Windows installation listview btw (that was how many times it took for me to get in). But I pressed the Next option with no OS selected all 3 times until the OS finally decided to show up before I ran through these commands.

It seems the first time I tried, it worked, startup repair found NO PROBLEMS. Then upon booting up that time I thought I had it, but BSOD for ~1 second, then automatic reboot. Now i've gone through that process again, and after those commands, startup repair now says issues exist that it can't fix, and I haven't seen a BSOD since because I can't get past this "BootMgr is missing" screen. After those commands it's gone back to saying that Boot Manager is missing, and they don't seem to have an effect anymore.

Any help on this one? I need to get this fixed, and preferably as soon as possible.

[AceInfinity]

Hopefully someone has an idea to help me with this

[RoyM]

Hi AceInfinity

From the description given, it sounds like a hard drive failure.

I have experienced this type of failure where the hard drive will function initially
and then fail, Open the case and check cabling and also physically touch the HD
to check for excessive heat, or if the motherboard supports it, check
the temp of the HD from within BIOS and view the SMART results.

In rare cases when data recovery is needed for an
overheating HD. Remove it from the case (powered down of course)
then place the HD (component side up) on a bag of ice, this will sometimes allow
enough time to recover data before imminent failure.

If you suspect the HD is failing, you can always use utilities from the Manufacturer.
(i.e.) WDDiag, Seagate, etc.

Boot the computer from PE.
If partitions, formating, and filesystem pass all tests and no hardware failures are evident,
Next step would be to disinfect the PC from within PE,
"Hopefully" you will find no virus', as that will add another layer of complexity to the repair.
If no infection is found, you can now begin to repair the OS.

Fix your BootMgr using your favorite utilities.
Browse the filesystem with a File Manager of your choosing looking for anything
unusual or missing from the Vista install.
If everything looks good, it's time to reboot from HD

If boot from HD works, it's always a good idea to do the above checks again,
especially scanning for virus' again, this time from the running OS.
Malwarebytes' is one of my favorites as it also can be ran from PE, "Thank You homes32"
run another SFC and any other utility to uncover problems/errors.

Good Luck Troubleshooting.
RoyM

[misty]

@AceInfinity
I would definitly second RoyM's recommendation to boot a PE disk to check the hard disk partition structure. Also check to see which partition is active, and check for the existance of the (hidden, system) file bootmgr. If this file is missing from the active partition it would also account for your error message - haven't got a clue how it would have been removed though.

In the vista boot process, bootmgr is the actual boot loader that will be loaded by the partition boot sector code - if this file is missing then the BCD store (containing the actual boot menu entries) will not be loaded. Without the boot loader you are up the creek without a paddle!

On a windows 7/8 PC running the bcdboot command (e.g. BCDBOOT C:\Windows /s C:) from PE would replace all boot files and create a new BCD store too - however I'm not sure if this command works with Vista.

Simply copying bootmgr from a vista installation DVD should work if the file is missing. In fact any bootmgr version should boot vista.
Regards,

Misty

[AceInfinity]

@RoyM - I was wondering though, why didn't any of the commands above work when I booted up the vista install disk for it's repair options? And for the bootrec /rebuildbcd option it couldn't even find the Vista OS, as it returned "Total Windows installations found: 0" after running this command?

How do I get this command to recognize the Vista OS present on the disk?

I took a look at the file's using a live cd of Linux Mint 11, and I don't know what they had on the hard drive, but I know that hardly any or none of those files that I know where on the desktop when I was able to access this Vista OS, are visible on the disk when I view it in Linux, which is scary. Perhaps i'm just looking in the wrong location, but I sure hope I am.


@Misty - Firstly thank you guys for your replies... I really, need to get this back and working again, no exceptions, as I don't want any of the blame regardless of a hard disk failure for loosing those files that I know are very important.

"Also check to see which partition is active, and check for the existance of the (hidden, system) file bootmgr." Would you suggest DISKPART command for this? If I can recall correctly... But I haven't used these commands in some time. Where would you look for the existance of the bootmgr file? I'm kind of running up and down stairs as the computer downstairs doesn't have internet access and my own desktop does. Just trying to get as much info as I can.

I have no idea what happened though, I was just in the process of uninstalling AVG, and running SFC, and out of no where things got slow, and then a BSOD hit me, and when on reboot I got this error.

I have hardly much knowledge with hardware or Windows booting though, so this is where I fall short sadly. I don't have any experience with PE or how to boot/make a PE disk.

I'll look into bootmgr though and see how I can get a copy of one that will work for Vista (x64).

Edit: Alright, all I see in the "System Volume Information" folder while browsing the drive with Linux is the "tracking.log" file... This is really disappointing. I'm having so many problems lately, and just can't keep up with them all. Hopefully something works for me if I just keep at it. I don't see how I could have lost everything just from doing nothing else but running SFC and uninstalling AVG. These files should be somewhere. I'm not a Linux expert though.

Edited by AceInfinity, 28 March 2012 - 07:22 AM.

[misty]

@AceInfinity
If you have mounted the drive from another OS and there doesn't appear to be anything in the drive then you may have to resort to file recovery options. Testdisk is good for recovering deleted partitions. The testdisk download also used to include a file recovery tool (?bootrec). Another good file recovery option is Recuva. If you do have to resort to these methods then make sure you recover the files to another drive - not the one you are recovering files from. Sadly these are Windows Programs (although I think there is a linux version of tesdisk/bootrec) and you will either have to run them from PE or hook your parents hard drive up to another windows PC and access them from that. PE would be my preferred option but if you do not have one that's not an option right now.

I'd assumed there were some files at the root of the operating system drive when I posted earlier. bootmgr should be at the root of the active primary partition on a standard windows setup. Check the root of all drives and see if it's there - remember it is a hidden system file.

Linux will also have file recovery programs - haven't got a clue what to use in Linux though.

Sorry I can't be any more help however I'm about to start work for the day.

Good luck,

Misty

[RoyM]

AceInfinity Said
why didn't any of the commands above work when I booted up the vista install disk
for it's repair options? And for the bootrec /rebuildbcd option it couldn't even find
the Vista OS, as it returned "Total Windows installations found: 0" after running this command?

Reply:
I have experienced similar behavior with failing hard drives that will pass post
and fully boot, as the temps rise on the HD as a result of activity/usage
that is when it drops out. Hence your commands may not work.

To eliminate any misdiagnosis', check the temps of the HD in BIOS as suggested.
If it is running hot, your time is limited! Keep an eye on these temps to get
an idea of the HD's health. If temps are normal, it may be another problem.

Before running the commands you mentioned:
Open Explorer or Cmd and make sure the target drive exists and that it is functional,
the hard drive may function initially and then fail. I have actually witnessed
overheated HD's drop in and out while using which can make for a very frustrating experience.

It is good news that you can view the files from Linux, I am also very fond of
Linux but I cannot say the same of Vista.

I was going to mention replacing bootmgr in previous post but was not sure of
Vista's internals, so thank you Misty for confirming my suspicions.

Since you are disadvantage with no available PE, let me suggest this.
replace the bootmgr via one of Misty's suggestions.
If were lucky, the missing bootmgr may be the only problem
Cross Fingers.
Reboot to OS/Vista
Immediately backup

[misty]

@AceInfinity
How did you get on? I'm curious about whether you have solved your problem and also wanted to add some additional information that could be useful - some of it for future reference.

I'm not sure if bootmgr is x86/x64 specific, however bootmgr is backwards compatible. Recent versions should boot previous versions of Windows, so try using the bootmgr from your Windows 8 Consumer Preview DVD - other posts of yours indicate that you have a copy. If booting a more recent version of Windows (e.g. Windows 7) you are likely to need either a Windows 7 or 8 bootmgr - I doubt the vista version will work. As a rule of thumb I would attempt to use the same version as your operating system. Failing that I'd use a more recent version.

I don't have any experience with PE or how to boot/make a PE disk

Wrong. You do - but you didn't realise you did! The steps you previously carried out from the Vista Installation disk (running the bootrec commands) were running on a version of Windows Preinstallation Environment 2.0 (or 2.1 if using Vista SP1). If you don't want to create your own custom PE then you can use the one from any bootable Windows Vista/2008/7/8 Installation media - you can even use it to run portable programs from a USB stick if you don't mind using the command line to get to them. To do so -

• Assuming you have a USB stick with some portable applications on it (e.g. In the \PortableApps directory) - plug in the USB stick before booting from your Windows Installation media.

• Once the GUI phase of setup has started, you can open a command prompt by either pressing SHIFT+F10 or using the Repair you computer option. If you have multiple drives/partitions then it might be difficult to find the correct drive letter for the USB drive. Use diskpart -

• Enter the command list disk to list all disks attached to the system. You will hopefully be able to identify your USB drive from it's properties in the list of disks.

• Assuming the USB disk containing your portable applications is disk 1, use the command select disk 1 to give this disk focus

• Now run the command detail disk - this will list all volumes in the disk with focus and will display mount points for them (in the Ltr column). Now use this mount point at the command line to navigate to your portable apps folder (e.g. assuming USB is drive D:, type D: at the command prompt, following by CD PortableApps, etc) and start the program from the command line.

In terms of what applications to add to your external drive - this will depend on your needs. I would recommend a file manager (a43 works well) as this can be used as a program launcher, to copy files, etc.


Custom PE

reboot is the right place for building your first WinPE disk. It's worth investing the time to get one working now so that you are more prepared for helping your parents in future. Based on my own experiences I can practically guarantee that you'll end up helping them again - that's if they let you near their PC after this . The irony is, if you'd left it alone it would have probably still been working - a mistake I have made on a number of occasions myself. My worst mistake was accidentally wiping the partition table from my main hard disk. This would not bother me too much now as I have a working backup system (including MBR backups), however the first time it happened scarred the bejesus out of me. Thankfully it was my own PC so no one else was upset by my sad loss. I learned to use file recovery tools very soon after that incident.

Having learned from countless mistakes I now use my custom PE to image a hard disk before starting work on anyone else's PC. There are plenty of back up options out there.

Regards,

Misty

[AceInfinity]

I got in on another computer. It's what i've been using the whole time to communicate back and forth on this thread, but still never fixed the issue on the troublesome machine.

Additional: @Misty - I tried the BCDBOOT command as well too, and it wasn't recognized in Vista for me when I tried it, I don't think it's available for Vista. But that just means i'm the unlucky one here, haha.

Perhaps the ATTRIB -h -s command will work if I open the repair command line then? I'll see what is available. This is frustrating though, i'd expected to solve this for my dad in ~1 hour, and the complete unexpected happened. I can't give up now.

I need to confirm with him which is the OS drive partition... Just to make sure that it's even being recognized, as I see a "Data" and "Music" partition right now, and based on what I seen in Linux, even with as little knowledge I have about Linux, it didn't appear to look like the root structure of a system drive partition. I couldn't find a "Windows" directory, and based on my past experience with having to view drives in Linux, I can't remember if this is normal or not. I would take a guess as to no though. So maybe the actual drive already failed and these are other drives he has which are internal drives? I hadn't even opened the tower yet as it's embedded in a larger tower with many other computers, so my workspace is frustrating too to deal with. I'll do that later, possibly tomorrow to see what we have, as you say I also would need in there to check the core temp of the drives for a physical touch test.

I tried DISKPART to select and place the active partition as the only partition on the "Data" drive, but no avail, still "Missing BootMgr" error.

Next:
- Check temps
- Check existence of bootmgr

This is really really frustrating however, as for me, it's disappointment put on myself whether it's my fault or not, it's just who I am. If it is just a disk failure then it just had to happen at the point in time when I was trying to "fix" a computer lol. I've never seen a BSOD while running System File Checker, in my life!

I think he must have had the auto-restart method enabled in the system options and the default full kernel dump selected, but as I couldn't find any memory.dmp in the filesystem layout (which is what I was hoping to find) I can't analyze the crash dump on my own computer here.

Really left in the dark with this one, I have no idea.

Again, RoyM, and Misty, you have no idea how much I appreciate your time here. It does mean a lot. I'll come back with any updates.

(Edit: This was my reply that I didn't send yesterday but i'll get to working on what there is in the last post by you Misty and see if it works)

Cheers

[AceInfinity]

Alright, something new finally, after a few attempts, I selected the proper partition and marked as active from what I know. Booted up OEM repair/install disk and ran the automatic repairs.

I thought I HAD it, I got to the loading bar with the on startup, then a BSOD hit me, it automatically restarted and upon restart I get a dos screen with the title: "Windows Boot Manager"

-File: winload.exe
-Status: 0xc000000e

And something about winload.exe being missing or corrupt.

[AceInfinity]

Temps seem fine, but ran a HDD test (Drive Fitness) and came out with dispositional code of 0x70 which means that there's a "corrupted sector" on the drive, probably the boot sector...

[AceInfinity]

I got in using safe mode after repairing the boot sector manually... I figured that I should recover all the files that need recovering over to G: where there's 1TB of space available for me to back things up, and then see what I can do from there so i've now backed up all the possible files that were there. It appears no data loss ocurred.

AVG on uninstall freezes the system up (of course..) so that WILL go one way or another. It seems to be the culprit here as this never happened until I tried uninstalling it in the first place.

Pure evidence as to why you should never install AVG, and to why BSOD analysts including myself suggest to remove it. Only now I have personal experience to confirm what i've been trying to tell others. I wanted MSE on this computer.

Edit: Analyzed the winload.exe file using System File Checker and found no integrity violations with that file, it seems to be fine, just need to see how this computer boots in normal mode now after I do a couple more things. Updated the graphics driver based on a few BSOD's I found in the dumps folder which I scanned (months previous from now, but probably still a bit relevant to this current issue) and found that some were related to the graphics driver. I used driverquery and found that the driver was dated from 2009 and realized that there was a newer version released from Nvidia from 2012.

Uninstalled AVG in safe mode with a removal tool, and now i'm running chkdsk and system file checker to see if there's any other files that might need fixing based on the originals from the hash comparison used in that tool.

[AceInfinity]

Still having issues booting in Normal Mode for some reason however... At least i've backed up the files, however i'm still sure he doesn't want to do a system recovery, so i've been avoiding that wherever possible up until now.

[misty]

@AceInfinity
I'm glad that you are making progress. I admit to being a little confused though, as a previous post mentioned that the Windows folder was missing when you mounted the drive in Linux. I'm not sure what you have done to make it reappear.

A few words of advice that might be useful for the future (you are obviously welcome to ignore this) -

• Please try and provide as much information as possible. What would really help for example is - how many physical disks/drives are present; number of partitions on each drive; whether files are present and accessible (e.g. can you see/access them from PE or Linux).
• Well intentioned people (myself included) will give advice or make suggestions - following this could potentially make the problem worse.
• Carrying out commands (e.g. bootrec, using diskpart to change the active partition, etc) on the drive could make it harder to recover files in the long run. Ideally I would try to carry out read only checks/tasks initially.
• I would recommend (if possible) making a sector by sector copy of the disk before carrying out any actions on it - this will ensure that everything is copied - not just accessible files.
• Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. If the disk is mechanically sound then the files will remain on it until overwritten. This is why file recovery programs should always recover files to another physical drive/partition.

I thought I HAD it, I got to the loading bar with the on startup, then a BSOD hit me, it automatically restarted and upon restart I get a dos screen with the title: "Windows Boot Manager"
-File: winload.exe
-Status: 0xc000000e

That's the Windows boot manager - not DOS. The error didn't surprise me as winload.exe wouldn't be there if the Windows folder was missing.

At least i've backed up the files, however i'm still sure he doesn't want to do a system recovery, so i've been avoiding that wherever possible up until now.

Great news on the back up. Provided all personal data is backed up I'd personally go for clean (re)installation. That's just my preference though.

Good luck as always.

Regards,

Misty

[AceInfinity]

I admit to being a little confused though, as a previous post mentioned that the Windows folder was missing when you mounted the drive in Linux. I'm not sure what you have done to make it reappear.

With this, I believe I may have been interpreting the wrong drive as the system drive as previously I took out all the external drives that I could find to narrow down the results with reviewing my options for a list of disks available, YET, further I found out that the system drive wasn't even reading half the time, on and off during reboot to reboot. So I never even seen it before previously. It existed, but I was looking at the wrong drive.

Having no access to the tower because of how secured it is inside of this box filled with many other computer towers, I decided to stray away from that while I took the time to use other troubleshooting methods.

I was seeing DEVICE_NOT_FOUND errors from time to time (Not physically but it was the equivilant of what was returned in HDD diagnostic reports from the bootable utility I was using), and even the install disk wasn't reading the OS sometimes, which leads me to believe that this was just a result of not being able to read the drive, when in the BIOS as well, sometimes it was not getting seen...

It's an IDE drive from what I know. Others are SATA.

Please try and provide as much information as possible. What would really help for example is - how many physical disks/drives are present; number of partitions on each drive; whether files are present and accessible (e.g. can you see/access them from PE or Linux).

I did all this to the best of my knowledge, I had no way to access the drives in the tower without spending time disassembling the whole tower box he has which would have taken quite a while, so I went by what I seen. Although the external drives and any other drive but the main one with the corrupted boot sector are irrelevant in my opinion.

Carrying out commands (e.g. bootrec, using diskpart to change the active partition, etc) on the drive could make it harder to recover files in the long run. Ideally I would try to carry out read only checks/tasks initially.

Lots of these verification/scans/read only checks didn't do me much good as even chkdsk was having a hard time completing with verifying only. The only scan that i've successfully completed by now would be sfc with the verifiy flag set as the others won't complete for some reason (my suspicious which is due to having a corrupted sector; boot sector)

I selected the IDE drive which was confirmed to me as the system drive by word of mouth based on the partition and disk sizes using DISKPART, and selected partition 1 on that drive as active which I believed helped, as somehow this active drive must have been changed to the wrong drive, based on not being able to read the system drive from time to time on certain boot sessions... Probably why this error of not being able to find the boot manager, which was bugging me lol.

I would recommend (if possible) making a sector by sector copy of the disk before carrying out any actions on it - this will ensure that everything is copied - not just accessible files.

Wouldn't it be better to start fresh than to copy a possible corrupted sector of the disk now that I have the main important files recovered?

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. If the disk is mechanically sound then the files will remain on it until overwritten. This is why file recovery programs should always recover files to another physical drive/partition.

I'm already familiar with this as with background programming knowledge I have with the NTFS filesystem. Slowly becoming more independently knowledgeable about the boot routine as well through this experience I never lost any files though, just the corrupted boot sector which is preventing the smooth process of booting the PC up. Winload.exe seems to have trouble loading some programs initially during startup in normal mode last time I seen.

I have known about the information left on the system even with "permanently deleted" files though. It's almost like cached data in some ways which doesn't get overwritten until it needs to be occupied by newer data on the drive.

That's the Windows boot manager - not DOS. The error didn't surprise me as winload.exe wouldn't be there if the Windows folder was missing.

I didn't mention DOS, but referred it as a DOS screen, just what I call the black screens on boot. Command screen, console screens, not a big deal... The Windows folder wasn't missing though, it was always there, but perhaps the entire drive wasn't being seen at some points when this had occurred. Which is essentially the same as having no Windows folder lol.

Great news on the back up. Provided all personal data is backed up I'd personally go for clean (re)installation. That's just my preference though.

This would be my preference too but not too sure about the actual computer user yet. I'd do it, and have it done in ~1 day with it all set up with programs and such, updates and security. Depends on what his perspective is though. And i'll have to double check that all those files are backed up, but he didn't have much other than what was in the %UserProfile% directories... Everything else was on external drives seeing as that the IDE drive he had was ~450GB in size

[AceInfinity]

"BOOTMGR is missing, Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart"
 
There is pro article on the topic, hope it helps more users:
http://www.windowspa...is-missing.html

I last posted about this more than a year ago, this has already been long solved.

 

This is just spam.

[Sha0]

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