219 replies to this topic

[pscEx]

If somebody of the first type expects help, it'd be rather silly of him. But hope I'm the second type. You already helped me a lot. Sorry if I didn't do something right. I very often make errors in communication with people when I rely only on typing and reading. Please accept my apologies if I did so again.

Don't worry!

In the past, I sometimes had to explain some new members the board rules rather drastic.
(And they became very useful members ...)
I think you are becoming one of them ...

Peter

[lucho]

I think that you misunderstand 'native'

When developing this idea, I used 'native' in the sence of 'native language': Your PE appears to you in your language, not by default in English'

Independent from the project, the WinBuilder always uses standard Win32 DLLs, not only the 'native' NTDLL.DLL.

Thanks for the clarification. I messed up NativeEx and WinRoot. I thought that NativeEx is WinRoot (sorry for my error!) and so thought that it supports only the "native" API. Now I see. What are the advantages of NativeEx to PicoXP?

By the way, I checked and the scanner doesn't contain any hard coded string "Documents and Settings" in ASCII or Unicode. This would be rather silly as this directory is called differently in different versions of Windows for the different languages (if I remember correctly). Also, in Vista, the user's directories are in "Users", not "Documents and Settings".

Regards,
Lucho

[lucho]

Don't worry!

In the past, I sometimes had to explain some new members the board rules rather drastic.

This is the problem with forums and faceless / voiceless communication in general. It's like driving a tank. You have two levers and one tiny sighthole. It's very easy to direct the 2000 horsepowers and the all-smashing caterpillars of the tank to the wrong direction. Forums are very powerful and can be very dangerous, just like tanks!

(And they became very useful members ...)
I think you are becoming one of them ...

Thank you, I hope so!

Lucho (cheers!)

[pscEx]

What are the advantages of NativeEx to PicoXP?

Let me give an answer which may surprise you:
None, they are the same!

Some history:
In the (allow my calling convention) pre-ice-age time when 'OpenBuilder' still resided, there has been a project 'NanoXP' which offerred a very small, cmd based XP PE.

Then I developed my 'nativeEx' idea which builds a PE, completelly (including language dependent names) built from the source CD.
I have been proud that unlike BartPE which (at least at that time) used predefined (and therefore usually English) hives, my project does everything in your German, French, Italian, Portuguese, etc. ...

And just to demonstrate the power of this idea, I created PicoXP (you know: milli, micro, nano, pico, ...).

After that PicoXP as practically used project went to history. As far as I remember posts, you are the first one trying to use it.

Now back to 'None, they are the same!'

In the current nativeEx_barebone project, by doing 'some magical choices' you can build a PE which is logically the same like PicoXP.
Physically it is not the same, because in the mean time something necessary has been added to nativeEx. Therefore it might be a bit larger.

How you can work:

In nativeEx_barebone > Basic > !WBManager > WBManager you can choose a predefined püroject.

I'm going to add 'pico', and will PM you a message, if this is done.
Then let's see whether your intentions are fullfilled.

BTW: You do not need this 'pico' constellation from me. Scan the project tree carefully and decide what you need. Then you can store your 'pico' and post it here in order to save some time for me!

Peter

[lucho]

In nativeEx_barebone > Basic > !WBManager > WBManager you can choose a predefined püroject.

I'm going to add 'pico', and will PM you a message, if this is done.
Then let's see whether your intentions are fulfilled.

BTW: You do not need this 'pico' constellation from me. Scan the project tree carefully and decide what you need. Then you can store your 'pico' and post it here in order to save some time for me!

I started working with your NativeEx. Attached are my settings. They're minimal. No errors during the build, but when I boot from the resulting ISO, the blue background text mode SETUP interface loads instead of the progress bar and the XP logo (this is good, I don't mind it) and in a short time, it stops with the message:

The entry "ntkrnlmp.exe" in the [SourceDisksFiles] section of the INF file is corrupt or missing. Setup cannot continue. Press any key to exit.

Needless to say that I have no idea why all of this happens, which INF file it means, what is this "ntkrnlmp.exe" file and why it's missing.

My settings, if the attached file doesn't help, are the following:

nativeEx_barebone
____Basic
________!WBManager
____________Define fundamentals
________________Command line shell (didn't change the default settings here; don't know what is "Set!")
________Build
____________Make directories
____________Copy and expand files
____Drivers
________USB Mass Storage driver (+USB keyboard/mouse)
____Finish
________Create image file
____________Create ISO

All other marks are unchecked. I modified the CMD script as the CMD script of PicoXP (added the /k option and the 2 registry entries for screen and buffer size, plus one more to enable the file/directory name auto-completion feature of CMD.EXE).

Thanks,
Lucho

Attached Files

•  nativex.zip   2.68KB   510 downloads

[pscEx]

I started working with your NativeEx. Attached are my settings. They're minimal. No errors during the build, but when I boot from the resulting ISO, the blue background text mode SETUP interface loads instead of the progress bar and the XP logo (this is good, I don't mind it) and in a short time, it stops with the message:

The entry "ntkrnlmp.exe" in the [SourceDisksFiles] section of the INF file is corrupt or missing. Setup cannot continue. Press any key to exit.

Needless to say that I have no idea why all of this happens, which INF file it means, what is this "ntkrnlmp.exe" file and why it's missing.

My settings, if the attached file doesn't help, are the following:

nativeEx_barebone
____Basic
________!WBManager
____________Define fundamentals
________________Command line shell (didn't change the default settings here; don't know what is "Set!")
________Build
____________Make directories
____________Copy and expand files
____Drivers
________USB Mass Storage driver (+USB keyboard/mouse)
____Finish
________Create image file
____________Create ISO

All other marks are unchecked. I modified the CMD script as the CMD script of PicoXP (added the /k option and the 2 registry entries for screen and buffer size, plus one more to enable the file/directory name auto-completion feature of CMD.EXE).

Thanks,
Lucho

Sorry, Lucho,

currently I do not have the time to check with you what you made wrong.

Instead I created the WBManager 'Pico' constellation which runs on my system with XP source.
It generates an ISO of 15.9 mB. I think, that's not much more than the original PicoXP.

You can download it from the nativeEX server.

Please download The complete WBManager directory. There have been some glitches in another constellation.

Peter

[lucho]

currently I do not have the time to check with you what you made wrong.

Instead I created the WBManager 'Pico' constellation which runs on my system with XP source.
It generates an ISO of 15.9 mB. I think, that's not much more than the original PicoXP.

You can download it from the nativeEX server.

Please download The complete WBManager directory. There have been some glitches in another constellation.

Thank you! As far as I understand, WinBuilder is designed to be used "on-line". But is this mandatory? Can't it be used in "off-line" mode? If so, could you just give me the URL to download this new "Pico constellation" (sorry, what does this term mean in its non-astronomy sense?)? Or at least the address of the "nativeEx" server from which I could select it for download. After all, what does WinBuilder use to download these things if not a mini-browser of its own? If so, can't I do the same with my "normal" web browser?

Sorry if these things have been asked thousands of times before. Sorry also if the answer is "off-line mode is not supported, so you're on your own here - we can't help you if you don't follow the standard procedures that everyone else follows", which I suspect. I'd be glad to know where I can read this information without wasting your time.

Thanks,
Lucho

P.S. Please disregard the above paragraph. I'm now in my secret little Vista on the same machine, slowly downloading the project from within WinBuilder. Because it's not in a compressed form, it will take longer time but hopefully in a couple of hours it will be complete. Then I will try your new Pico. After bashing my head against the wall (as usually), I understand that it's better to follow the standard procedure, no matter how slow is your connection. After downloading the whole thing, I will transfer the whole WinBuilder directory to the other machine and continue the experiments there. In principle, I have many old real machines, each for various tasks and prefer them to virtual machines. So I download on one machine, build on another, test on third and so on. Because they're old, I can't sell them and I wouldn't like to sell them anyway. The sound and light of a working hard disk and the noise of the fans can't be substituted for anything

[Brito]

As far as I understand, WinBuilder is designed to be used "on-line". But is this mandatory?

No it's not mandatory, you can use it offline. There is an option to disable all network access under the "Tools" menu.

If you're not using a prepared project package, it's much better if you use the download center because it will do all necessary steps and grab all files automatically.

-------

You can also grab the files of each download server using your browser, you just need to know the direct link. On the download center, select a file and view it's info to reveal the direct download link.

In alternative, an index.html at each server location also provides these links but sometimes it gets outdated if the author updates the server without updating index.html

An example:
http://livexp.boot-land.net

[pscEx]

Thank you! As far as I understand, WinBuilder is designed to be used "on-line". But is this mandatory? Can't it be used in "off-line" mode? If so, could you just give me the URL to download this new "Pico constellation" (sorry, what does this term mean in its non-astronomy sense?)? Or at least the address of the "nativeEx" server from which I could select it for download. After all, what does WinBuilder use to download these things if not a mini-browser of its own? If so, can't I do the same with my "normal" web browser?

Sorry if these things have been asked thousands of times before. Sorry also if the answer is "off-line mode is not supported, so you're on your own here - we can't help you if you don't follow the standard procedures that everyone else follows", which I suspect. I'd be glad to know where I can read this information without wasting your time.

Thanks,
Lucho

WinBuilder can work offline, too.
There is even an option under "Tools" to switch the network ability off.

But the advantage using the download manager is

• The download manager tells you which remote files are newer than your local ones.
• The downloaded files are inserted at the correct place in the project tree.
• After download a MD5 check is made

You can download the complete nativeEx_barebone project here.

Peter

[lucho]

Thank you very much, Nuno and Peter, for your help. My attempt to download it from within WinBuilder failed. At a file called _default.txt in the languages "folder", it gave a "file not found" error message and then the download froze. When I restarted WinBuilder, it said that the files are damaged (processed with a different version of LZMA or something similar I forgot). Not to worry because I used WB 0.74 which I see is not the latest version. So, Peter's ZIP was really necessary for me. Now I'll test it and will let you know the results.

Regards,
Lucho

[was_jaclaz]

But the advantage using the download manager is
....

THEORETICALLY:

• The download manager tells you which remote files are newer than your local ones.
• The downloaded files are inserted at the correct place in the project tree.

In practice, due to version nightmare, changes in paths, hardcoded things, new versions of Winbuilder with no fully checked previous version compatibility, poorly engineered/written .scripts, this does not unfortunately happen always.

jaclaz

[pscEx]

Thank you very much, Nuno and Peter, for your help. My attempt to download it from within WinBuilder failed. At a file called _default.txt in the languages "folder", it gave a "file not found" error message and then the download froze. When I restarted WinBuilder, it said that the files are damaged (processed with a different version of LZMA or something similar I forgot). Not to worry because I used WB 0.74 which I see is not the latest version. So, Peter's ZIP was really necessary for me. Now I'll test it and will let you know the results.

Regards,
Lucho

Last half hour I was rebuilding the nativeEx server content. That might be the reason for the _defaut.txt issue. Also some MD5 checks failed. That is done, and the nativeEx server content is consistent again.

BTW: I also uploaded a new 'complete'

Peter

[pscEx]

this does not unfortunately happen always.

See it optimistic:

this does not unfortunately happen always = in most cases this happens

And for the remaining cases:
At least in LiveXP and nativeEx we are working on reducing the issues to come into the near of zero.

Peter

[was_jaclaz]

I thought that I was already "optimistic".

I mean, at least in my mind, "not always" should mean "more" success than "most cases".

Numerically "not always" means to me something between 90 and 99 out of 100, while most cases can be anything >51....

At least in LiveXP and nativeEx we are working on reducing the issues to come into the near of zero.

Sure, . though I still like binary values, near to zero is still not low enough to be called always.

Can we set for "nearly always"?

jaclaz

[pscEx]

... while most cases can be anything >51....

I wanted to speak in general, not only for my projects.

Peter

[pscEx]

Independent from download discussions, I'm happy that I can announce a highlight now:

The nativeEx_barebone "Pico" constellation, now brings an ISO of 15.4 MB!
(German XP SP2)

This ISO is FULLY functioning in an emulator, e.g. readable window caption, w/o necessarity to copy Arial.ttf.
And it contains also the CMDTweaks (you remember coloured window etc.).

And imagine, it is just a 'cut off' of the standard nativeEx_barebone, no special handlings!

Peter

[lucho]

Thank you very much! I re-downloaded the file and tested it. It really works in qEmu for XP SP3+ (without the "BIOS not ACPI-compatible" error), which is very handy if you have to quickly test changes.

I added the USB script and think that becasue it's necessary with today's computers with an USB mouse and/or keyboard, and it doesn't increase the size of the ISO file significantly (adds just less than half a megabyte), you cold add it to nativeEx_barebone.

This ISO is FULLY functioning in an emulator, e.g. readable window caption, w/o necessarity to copy Arial.ttf.
And it contains also the CMDTweaks (you remember coloured window etc.).

ARIAL.TTF is still copied in "pico". Have you tested without it?

I have just a couple of small notes.
First, the temporary directories are now set, but I couldn't make it create a RAM drive for them.
Second (on the USB script) the mouse scrolling wheel works with an USB mouse but not with a PS/2 mouse.

Regards,
Lucho

[pscEx]

I added the USB script and think that becasue it's necessary with today's computers with an USB mouse and/or keyboard, and it doesn't increase the size of the ISO file significantly (adds just less than half a megabyte), you cold add it to nativeEx_barebone.

I'll add it to the project

ARIAL.TTF is still copied in "pico". Have you tested without it?

Yes, it runs w/o arial.ttf. By mistake I uploaded the WBManager "Pico" configuration to set the copy option in Copy&Expand script.
You can manually uncheck that option in Copy&Expand script.

First, the temporary directories are now set, but I couldn't make it create a RAM drive for them.

Create a RAM drive:

• Define in !Fundamentals
• Add ImDisk script

Second (on the USB script) the mouse scrolling wheel works with an USB mouse but not with a PS/2 mouse.

Sorry, that's out of my knowledge.

Peter

[lucho]

Re: USB script

I'll add it to the project

Great, thanks!

Yes, it runs w/o arial.ttf. By mistake I uploaded the WBManager "Pico" configuration to set the copy option in Copy&Expand script.
You can manually uncheck that option in Copy&Expand script.

Indeed, it does! Great! But why are there so many other fonts (.FON) copied too? PicoXP copied only MARLETT.TTF.

Create a RAM drive:

• Define in !Fundamentals
• Add ImDisk script

Unfortunately, this doesn't work here. No RAM drive is created. I also tried with the mysterious "Set!" squares, although I don't know what they are for, but again with no effect. No R: drive exists when I boot from the ISO.

Re: PS/2 mouse wheel

Sorry, that's out of my knowledge.

Is this a bug of Microsoft? If not, whom can I ask for it?

Regards,
Lucho

[MedEvil]

@psc
Imdisk is started by a command in runonceex, which isn't touched without explorer.

[pscEx]

@psc
Imdisk is started by a command in runonceex, which isn't touched without explorer.

Since a while I know ...
And I'm working on it.

Peter

[MedEvil]

That was not a bug report! Just a friendly hint.

[pscEx]

Since a while I know ...
And I'm working on it.

Peter

The issue is more complex than it appeared at the very first look:

Imdisk.exe needs ImDisk.cpl.
And ImDisk.cpl needs ComDlg32.dll and ComCtl32.dll
And Com???32.dll need ...

All these files are not included in the 'Pico' constellation (They also are not in PicoXP).

Alternity:

In my archive I have under WinBuilder 052 a RamDrive script by Ove, which worked at former time and which should be work under 076, too.

But the bad news: It contains an attached driver from QSoft. Maybe in the ice-age it has been free, but now it is surelly commercial.

Who cuts the Gordon Knot?

Peter

[MedEvil]

I thought we used a freeware ramdisk driver before. One based on some sample code from M$.

[MedEvil]

PS: Why does Imdisk require the cpl? the cpl should only be for easier configuration.
Also i think to recall that older versions of ImDisk came without the cpl.