114 replies to this topic

[Wonko the Sane]

And IF the active partition status does not change the behaviour, you can still try:

• hiding other partitions
• install in the PE (or setup) a filter driver:
  http://www.msfn.org/...os/page__st__54
• flip the stupid removable bit of that stick (and if you find a way, that would solve the problem for good)
• use some of the advanced features of grub4dos to re-write on the fly the partition table and have the nth partition temporary be the first (and optionally only) one:
  http://reboot.pro/7138/

Wonko

[deckoff]

If only 1st ptn can be seen, what happens if you run DISKPART under WinPE and List the ptns - maybe you could assign a drive letter to the partitions using diskpart? If you can and Windows Setup can now see the ptn, then we have a way of making it work by using tutorial #43 but modifying the loadiso.cmd file so that it first runs a diskpart script to assign a drive letter to the 'hidden' partition.

DISKPART will list all three partitions.

select disk 1

list partition

What is quite strange both unseen partitions will be listed as partition 0??
if I try to :

select partition 0

assign

I will receive an error that the volume does not exist.
Chose volume and repeat the operation..
Sorry, I am completely new to this tool???

[Wonko the Sane]

DISKPART will list all three partitions.

Post the OUTPUT of the diskpart commands you listed (besides the command themselves).

How exactly did you partition the stick?, and please DO NOT reply like here:
http://reboot.pro/15947/page__st__35

Or, get a disk editor or a partition editor or a similar tool and post CONTENTS of the partition table.


Wonko

[deckoff]

Expert command (m for help): d

Device: /dev/sdb

0x000: 33 C0 FA 8E D8 8E D0 BC 00 7C 89 E6 06 57 8E C0

0x010: FB FC BF 00 06 B9 00 01 F3 A5 EA 1F 06 00 00 52

0x020: 52 B4 41 BB AA 55 31 C9 30 F6 F9 CD 13 72 13 81

0x030: FB 55 AA 75 0D D1 E9 73 09 66 C7 06 8D 06 B4 42

0x040: EB 15 5A B4 08 CD 13 83 E1 3F 51 0F B6 C6 40 F7

0x050: E1 52 50 66 31 C0 66 99 E8 66 00 E8 21 01 4D 69

0x060: 73 73 69 6E 67 20 6F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20

0x070: 73 79 73 74 65 6D 2E 0D 0A 66 60 66 31 D2 BB 00

0x080: 7C 66 52 66 50 06 53 6A 01 6A 10 89 E6 66 F7 36

0x090: F4 7B C0 E4 06 88 E1 88 C5 92 F6 36 F8 7B 88 C6

0x0A0: 08 E1 41 B8 01 02 8A 16 FA 7B CD 13 8D 64 10 66

0x0B0: 61 C3 E8 C4 FF BE BE 7D BF BE 07 B9 20 00 F3 A5

0x0C0: C3 66 60 89 E5 BB BE 07 B9 04 00 31 C0 53 51 F6

0x0D0: 07 80 74 03 40 89 DE 83 C3 10 E2 F3 48 74 5B 79

0x0E0: 39 59 5B 8A 47 04 3C 0F 74 06 24 7F 3C 05 75 22

0x0F0: 66 8B 47 08 66 8B 56 14 66 01 D0 66 21 D2 75 03

0x100: 66 89 C2 E8 AC FF 72 03 E8 B6 FF 66 8B 46 1C E8

0x110: A0 FF 83 C3 10 E2 CC 66 61 C3 E8 62 00 4D 75 6C

0x120: 74 69 70 6C 65 20 61 63 74 69 76 65 20 70 61 72

0x130: 74 69 74 69 6F 6E 73 2E 0D 0A 66 8B 44 08 66 03

0x140: 46 1C 66 89 44 08 E8 30 FF 72 13 81 3E FE 7D 55

0x150: AA 0F 85 06 FF BC FA 7B 5A 5F 07 FA FF E4 E8 1E

0x160: 00 4F 70 65 72 61 74 69 6E 67 20 73 79 73 74 65

0x170: 6D 20 6C 6F 61 64 20 65 72 72 6F 72 2E 0D 0A 5E

0x180: AC B4 0E 8A 3E 62 04 B3 07 CD 10 3C 0A 75 F1 CD

0x190: 18 F4 EB FD 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 23 9D 0A 00 00 00 00 01

0x1C0: 01 00 0C 3F E0 FF 20 00 00 00 E0 07 40 00 80 35

0x1D0: 71 05 0B FE FF FF 00 08 40 00 00 00 00 01 00 3F

0x1E0: E0 FF 0B 3F E0 FF 00 08 40 01 00 D0 9C 00 00 00

0x1F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA



Expert command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/sdb: 64 heads, 32 sectors, 15259 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 00   1   1    0  63  32 1023		 32    4196320 0c

2 80  53  49  261 254  63 1023    4196352   16777216 0b

3 00  63  32 1023  63  32 1023   20973568   10276864 0b

4 00   0   0    0   0   0    0		  0		  0 00

Expert command (m for help):

Is this what we are looking for?
I will post commands in a while

[steve6375]

first ptn starts as cyl 0 and ends at 1023, next ptn starts at cyl 261 and ends at 1023 !!!
That doesn't seem right...! No wonder diskpart is confused.

[Wonko the Sane]

Is this what we are looking for?

Yes.
It s clearly a non-standard partitioning.
Additionally it is particularly strange WHY the device is seen as having a 64/32 HS geometry (as *any* modern device should be seen as 255/63)
In any case, under a NT system after NT 4.00 a device is seen anyway as 255/63, so the CHS and LBA addresses are UNbalanced and overlapping (and this may be part of the reason why you need to boot from freedos).

Now the usual question:
are you willing to start again from scratch (suggested), do you want to try understanding the issues by following some advice (much longer), or what?


Wonko

[deckoff]

Now the usual question:
are you willing to start again from scratch (suggested), do you want to try understanding the issues by following some advice (much longer), or what?


Wonko

I think I can easily change the geometry of the flash:)
More or less, I am starting from scratch, but tomorrow

[steve6375]

EASeus Home Partition Manager is free and will create multiple partitions on a USB Flash drive. You can install a driver that allows Windows to see all partitions..

[Wonko the Sane]

I think I can easily change the geometry of the flash:)

I don't think so , but one of the good things of the world is freedom to think whatever one wants or likes to think .


Wonko

[deckoff]

I don't think so , but one of the good things of the world is freedom to think whatever one wants or likes to think .


Wonko

Expert command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 1945 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 00  32  33	0 254  63 1023	   2048   31248384 0b

2 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

3 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

4 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

Expert command (m for help): d

Device: /dev/sdb

0x000: FA B8 00 10 8E D0 BC 00 B0 B8 00 00 8E D8 8E C0

0x010: FB BE 00 7C BF 00 06 B9 00 02 F3 A4 EA 21 06 00

0x020: 00 BE BE 07 38 04 75 0B 83 C6 10 81 FE FE 07 75

0x030: F3 EB 16 B4 02 B0 01 BB 00 7C B2 80 8A 74 01 8B

0x040: 4C 02 CD 13 EA 00 7C 00 00 EB FE 00 00 00 00 00

0x050: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x060: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x070: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x090: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0C0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x0F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x110: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x120: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x130: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x140: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x150: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x160: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x170: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x180: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x190: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CF C5 0C 00 00 00 00 20

0x1C0: 21 00 0B FE FF FF 00 08 00 00 00 D0 DC 01 00 00

0x1D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

0x1F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 AA

This is the same usb-flash, fdisk somehow fixed it??
I will do some formatting with gparted, fdisk, prepare live linux USB and see if and when the problem reappears. I will split the USB under Windows this time.

Edited by deckoff, 20 December 2011 - 07:54 AM.

[Wonko the Sane]

That stick has not been fdisked (if by FDISK you mean a DOS FDISK).
It currently uses the Windows VIsta or 7 "new paradigm" that respects NOT cylinder boundary.
This may not work on many USB bioses.


Wonko

[steve6375]

If you run diskpart then it has the 'feature' of re-writing the partition table. For instance, if you have a partition table with 4 entries but they are not in order (i.e. first table entry is the last ptn on the disk and 2nd ptn entry is the first ptn on the disk) then just running diskpart but making no real change (e.g. setting the 1st ptn active when it is already set to active) will re-order the ptn table and also 'adjust' for you any discrepancies that diskpart thinks are wrong. It will also delete a table entry if it thinks it is invalid.

[Wonko the Sane]

If you run diskpart then it has the 'feature' of re-writing the partition table. For instance, if you have a partition table with 4 entries but they are not in order (i.e. first table entry is the last ptn on the disk and 2nd ptn entry is the first ptn on the disk) then just running diskpart but making no real change (e.g. setting the 1st ptn active when it is already set to active) will re-order the ptn table and also 'adjust' for you any discrepancies that diskpart thinks are wrong. It will also delete a table entry if it thinks it is invalid.

And unless you patched the Registry (Vista and 7) it will make an alignment that does not respect cylinder boundary, which as said may be a problem with some BIOSes.


Wonko

[deckoff]

That stick has not been fdisked (if by FDISK you mean a DOS FDISK).
It currently uses the Windows VIsta or 7 "new paradigm" that respects NOT cylinder boundary.
This may not work on many USB bioses.


Wonko

No, I dont mean that
I used the linux based fdisk tool to change 64/32 HS geometry to 255/63
Now the USB-flash was split with respect to cylinders. Here is the output. Does it look OK??? If not, what do you recommend me to do, cos I kind of get lost

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 1945 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 80  32  33	0 254  63  260	   2048	4190917 0b

2 00   0   1  261 254  63 1023	4192965   18024930 0b

3 00 254  63 1023 254  63 1023   22217895	9028530 0b

4 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

Edited by deckoff, 20 December 2011 - 12:37 PM.

[Wonko the Sane]

I used the linux based fdisk tool to change 64/32 HS geometry to 255/63

No you did not.
You made the Linux fdisk see the device as 255/63 (just like before you made it see it as 64/32).
Geometry is something that is in the FIRMWARE of the device and you cannot change it with Linux fdisk.

Now the USB-flash was split with respect to cylinders. Here is the output. Does it look OK??? If not, what do you recommend me to do, cos I kind of get lost

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 1945 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 80  32  33	0 254  63  260	   2048	4190917 0b

2 00   0   1  261 254  63 1023	4192965   18024930 0b

3 00 254  63 1023 254  63 1023   22217895	9028530 0b

4 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

NO.
Cylinders boundaries are NOT respected for first partition, which should begin at CHS 0/1/1 LBA 63.
This may influence only the BIOS behaviour with that stick, though, and possibly MS -DOS, but since you had, besides the issue at hand a problem of only beoing capable of booting with freedos, if I were you I would try setting them "right".


Wonko

[sambul61]

deckoff

Now it might be a good time for you to read this rear find article written as claimed by some unknown USB Thumb expert Jacopo Lazzari. I actually started from it my Reboot journey, but the author always considered me just like you a bad student - probably even a lot worse.

Suggest to begin from its Disclaimer.

[deckoff]

No you did not.
You made the Linux fdisk see the device as 255/63 (just like before you made it see it as 64/32).

Which, I hope, is good????

NO.
Cylinders boundaries are NOT respected for first partition, which should begin at CHS 0/1/1 LBA 63.
This may influence only the BIOS behaviour with that stick, though, and possibly MS -DOS, but since you had, besides the issue at hand a problem of only beoing capable of booting with freedos, if I were you I would try setting them "right".


Wonko

Now I got it. Which tool do you recommend?
MS-DOS will also boot (of that makes any difference?)

[deckoff]

This one is OK, as far as I get it, right:

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 985 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 00   1   1    0 254  63  385		 63    6201027 0b

2 00   0   1  386 254  63  984    6201090    9622935 0b

3 00   0   0    0   0   0    0		  0		  0 00

4 00   0   0    0   0   0    0		  0		  0 00

[Wonko the Sane]

Now I got it. Which tool do you recommend?
MS-DOS will also boot (of that makes any difference?)

Why not RPM (DOS)?
http://www.ranish.com/part
Or Partition Logic?
http://partitionlogic.org.uk/

This way you would have tested a few more tools.

I am pretty sure that Linux tools can also respect cylinder boundary, if you tell them to respect it.

However, only first entry needs to be corrected, so *any* partition table editor would do.

The Linux fdisk for some reasons, lists CHS values as HSC.
Most other tools will use CHS order.
you want first partition to have start at CHS 0/1/1 and LBA 63.
the end of it in CHS is already OK.
Next you need to change the data in LBA size, 4192902. (4190917-2048+63)

In fdisk you should have:

Nr AF Hd Sec Cyl Hd Sec Cyl Start Size ID

1 80 1 1 0 254 63 260 63 4192902 0b

Then you will need to re-format the partition.

MS-DOS will also boot (of that makes any difference?)

Which MS-DOS version? (probably 7.x/8.x i.e. the WIn9x/Me one)

... but the author always considered me just like you a bad student - probably even a lot worse.

Actually - and just for the record - AFAIK the Author not only considered you a VERY bad subject, but he still does so, to be more precise he doesn't consider you at all a student. (you see, even very bad students tend to listen and learn, before or later)

And the Author - so you know - doesn't consider at all deckoff a "bad student".


Wonko

[Wonko the Sane]

This one is OK, as far as I get it, right:

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 985 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 00   1   1	0 254  63  385		 63	6201027 0b

2 00   0   1  386 254  63  984	6201090	9622935 0b

3 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

4 00   0   0	0   0   0	0		  0		  0 00

Yep , but that's another stick. (and has no Active partition)


Wonko

[sambul61]

Thanks Wonko,

I new, you will jump on that. But the article is a good starting point IMHO - that was the message I was trying to convey, not about personalities.

Hope, you agree with that part, unless you want to start a discussion about it as well.

[Wonko the Sane]

I only wanted to avoid the false impression you gave that the Author would somehow consider deckoff a "bad student".

Rest assured that the Author is perfectly capable to express himself and - if needed - express his thoughts on other members and on the way he considers them.


Wonko

[sambul61]

I was suspecting that.

So, in your view that article is good, or at least worse to read for the topic starter?

[Wonko the Sane]

So, in your view that article is good, or at least worse to read for the topic starter?

You might understand how I find that article exceptionally informative and well written and how, at the time, it was very relevant and innovative.
Nowadays (more than 6 years have passed), it is mostly obsolete as we have many "better" tools and a far deeper knowledge on the matter, so it's relevance is only for historical purposes.
Pointing anyone to it nowadays without a particular reason and without pointing to a specific part of it is mostly senseless, unless the scope is letting people know some history of early USB booting approaches.


Wonko

[deckoff]

After a lazy afternoon, here is what I got.
This is the output after the USB being parted with gparted(Ubuntu)

Disk /dev/sdb: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 1945 cylinders

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID

1 00   1   1    0 254  63  260		 63    4192902 0b

2 00   0   1  261 254  63 1023    4192965   18121320 0b

3 00 254  63 1023 254  63 1023   22314285    8932140 0b

4 00   0   0    0   0   0    0		  0		  0 00

This is the output, after the USB was parted with EasyUS free tool under Win 7

Nr AF  Hd Sec  Cyl  Hd Sec  Cyl	 Start	  Size ID 

1 00   1   1    0 254  63  287		 63    4626657 0b

2 00   0   1  288 254  63 1023    4626720   17430525 0b

3 00 254  63 1023 254  63 1023   22057245    9189180 0c

4 00   0   0    0   0   0    0		  0		  0 00

Partition logic was, let's say, unstable. It just froze after me trying to format the USB.
What I see here is that gparted got the first partition right(probably??)

you want first partition to have start at CHS 0/1/1 and LBA 63.
the end of it in CHS is already OK.
Next you need to change the data in LBA size, 4192902. (4190917-2048+63)

What I see and don't like that end SEC values of part 2 and 3 are the same 1023. Is this normal???